Grace F-9

the thin end of the wedge
Post Reply
Guest

Re: Grace F-9

Post by Guest » 06 Mar 2007 17:12

helium wrote:Here are some informations about Grace cartridges.
]
I made these charts ever since I came home, and now it's time to say good night...
Wow..thanks Helium for taking the time to post that information on Grace cartridges. That book you have on cartridges sounds just like what Blue Angel was talking about. I'm green with envy.

I think its time I gave up my Grace picture as my avatar. I bequeath it to you as the new resident Grace expert (':wink:') ..The King is dead..long live the king (':)')

helium
junior member
junior member
Posts: 5
Joined: 05 Mar 2007 03:49

Re: Grace F-9

Post by helium » 07 Mar 2007 12:45

I am pleased that the information I wrote seems to be interesting for all. :D

Hello Blue Angel
Blue Angel wrote:You are located in the best place to dig out ancient cartridge mysteries and your interest is much appreciated.
Surely it may be comparatively easier for me to obtain information about products sold in Japan. However, It may be easier for you to obtain information about products for export only, I think.:wink:

Hello Ernie L
The reason why I have some information about Grace is that I live in Japan by chance. Therefore, I wish that enthusiastic fans of Grace like you would continue using an avatar of Grace.:wink:
It seems that the discussion about Grace here is much more animated than any other Japanese sites. I am green with envy, too. :)

Blue Angel
vinyl addict
vinyl addict
Posts: 5764
Joined: 15 Aug 2005 20:15

Grace F-9

Post by Blue Angel » 07 Mar 2007 13:45

Hello Helium

Nice to hear from you! It will be my pleasure to exchange some audio experiences with you and one can always learn new things from other countries.

Regarding phono cartridges, I try my best to make them - especially moving coil models. You'd be pleased to know, my first Supex started it all about 7 years ago. I CAN re-create them, but that wouldn't be right.

Instead, I shut my eyes and ears (hehe) and developed my own creation.

Regarding this Nagatron HA-9000. I have a couple of step-up devices but the Nagatron is so exceptional it deserves a bit of research. Myself and some friends here and on diyaudio drew blanks whereever we looked and made enquiries on the net. A friend here at VE, found a review from 1978 in the US magazine Stereo Sound written by the late Julian Hirsch (Hirsch Houck Labs). He gave it a very high rating but was equally frustrated at the time as the device cannot be opened without damage, so what's inside will remain the maker's secret since 1978.

Mine is numbered 1108, so - one would think there could be another 1107 out there...unless the manufacturer was a bit fanciful and only made one?

A real mysterious conundrum.

I can send you pics, if you wish.

Btw, I DO also have a Grace F-9 which I will probably give a Gyger ruby cantilever one of these days, time permitting.

Regards

blue

Guest

A Grace and Goldring connection ?

Post by Guest » 07 Mar 2007 16:42

A Goldring replacement stylus for a Grace..what the ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... Track=true
it gets curiouser and curiouser. (wow spell check didn't object to that! )

oldovergrad
member
member
Posts: 81
Joined: 08 Mar 2007 04:51
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Ruby Retip

Post by oldovergrad » 11 Mar 2007 09:57

I have a Grace F9-E with Ruby cantilever which I purchased in the early 80's. I love the cartridge but the tip was too worn to use anymore. I replaced it with a new Blue Point Special EVO III. Although this new cartridge is similiar in sound to the F9-E it isn't quite as good to my ear.

I did some research and found the following site which does retipping that includes putting in a ruby cantilever.

http://www.sound-smith.com/retip/

I have sent off my cartridge to get reworked and will let you know how it turns out

Actiually I have two cantilever assemblies. I sent both off. If the performance is as advertised I will have a spare.

Guest

Re: Ruby Retip

Post by Guest » 11 Mar 2007 17:03

oldovergrad wrote:
I did some research and found the following site which does retipping that includes putting in a ruby cantilever.

http://www.sound-smith.com/retip/

I have sent off my cartridge to get reworked and will let you know how it turns out

Actiually I have two cantilever assemblies. I sent both off. If the performance is as advertised I will have a spare.
Yes ..I had SS do a re-tip on my F-9 a couple of months ago. If you liked the F-9 before you will love with a more modern stylus. The second picture down (labled FG LC ruby cantilever) is a picture of the stylus.
https://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/view ... cs&start=0

majick47
member
member
Posts: 213
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 01:38
Location: Boston MA

Grace F9 Ruby

Post by majick47 » 08 Apr 2007 01:55

Last year I purchased a Yamaha PX-2 turntable and included with the table was a Grace F9 Ruby with the canteliver broken off. There seemed little hope that I would locate a replacement stylus until I heard about SoundSmith. I opted to have it rebuilt with the $350 FG stylus/ruby canteliver. Prior to the original Ruby returning I had the oportunity to purchase a nearly new, less than 10 hours play time, Grace F9 Ruby from a local audio shop for $290. Within days the SoundSmith rebuilt Ruby returned and I must say that the rebuilt Ruby is every bit as good if not better than the original. Both Ruby cartridges outperform all of my MC cartridges by a wide margin and any of the MM cartridges by a country mile. :D

delcam1n0
long player
long player
Posts: 1811
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 10:53
Location: Bavaria Germany

Grace 9E Ruby

Post by delcam1n0 » 08 Apr 2007 08:33

Well, all these posts re the quality of Ruby Graces
will ePay its price into stratospheric heights no doubt...

But that shows you how stupid I was getting rid of
mine !

Majick, hallo, welcome!
Do tell us which other carts you have been able to compare
the Graces to and which other TTs you are using?

Wish you (and al others of course!) happy listening!

majick47
member
member
Posts: 213
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 01:38
Location: Boston MA

Grace Ruby

Post by majick47 » 08 Apr 2007 23:08

Have three TTs for my two systems, VPI HW19 MkIV with SAMA, PLC and Sumiko FT4 arm. Sony PS-X500 (biotracer arm) and a Yamaha PX-2. The Yamaha PX-2 is finicky and needs further adjustment but when operating correctly it's a winner. Tried a few cartridges, Denon DL-110, DL-160, DL-103, DL-270, Dynavector DV 10x4, Micro Benz MC Silver, Sumiko Alchemist IIIS and Alchemist IA, Yamaha MC-9 and Stanton 681EEE. I have a few other MM cartridges I havn't used in years and they are all forgetable. The two Grace Rubys are presently mounted on the VPI and Sony. After the Grace cartridges my next favorite is the Denon DL-110. I'm useing a Threshold Fet9 preamp in the VPI system and a Adcom GFP 565 in the Sony system. The Grace cartridges have the best attributes of all the other cartridges I have tried, tight powerful bass, smooth mids and highs, detailed, wide/deep sound stage and they are very musical. If you have one that's worn out/damaged it would be well worth the price to have it rebuilt. It will outperform by a wide margin any new cartridge costing the same amount as the rebuild.

bauzace50
vinyl addict
vinyl addict
Posts: 8083
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 15:48
Location: Guayama, Puerto Rico

Post by bauzace50 » 09 Apr 2007 01:38

Majick47,
that is a very dedicated posting, and thanks. Congratulations on your VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SAMA/SDS! You probably feel very good about it, and I couldn't imagine how my Mk III could be bested by yours, since it performs so well for me.
Of course, there are objective parameters that testify to your model's superiority.
Thanks for the short testimonial on a cartridge collection.
bauzace50

bastlnut
long player
long player
Posts: 4391
Joined: 21 Feb 2005 16:30
Location: Bern, Switzerland, World

Post by bastlnut » 10 Apr 2007 11:50

hallo all,

now that all this craze about the Grace F9 cartridge, and the rarity of them....
i found a Denon DP-21F TT on a local 'ebay format' auction site, and it had a Grace F9-L (clear plastic) on it in working condition.
it was just in one of the photos, and no mention of it in the description other than it works but may need a new stylus!
starting bid of SwissFr. 35,- and a buyitnow of SwissFr. 65,-......
so it took it for 65,-......and i think i did well! :wink:
this one, i probably wont sell off like my last one(Grace cartridge).
it will be interesting to take a closer look at the stylus assy.

just wanted to make you all jealous.
amazing what most people overlook wenn selling, or looking at offers! :shock:

regards,
bastlnut

BeEvil
member
member
Posts: 240
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 13:16
Location: Ontario, Canada

Post by BeEvil » 10 Apr 2007 14:03

Hey bastlnut,

Great steal!! That's the F-9 that I have. If you do some research you'll find that the Luminance Trace (F-9L) is probably the best stylus. They used it in the top of the line F14 and F15 exclusively. I think it was the F14 and 15.

I got a similar deal recently. I purchased a Yamaha TT that came with a Supex SD-900 Rosewood cartridge. It was broken, but fixable for $300. One fixed it's worth at least $2000. Not bad for $175 purchase. Who's jealous now? LOL.

Andrew

majick47
member
member
Posts: 213
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 01:38
Location: Boston MA

Grace Cartridges

Post by majick47 » 10 Apr 2007 17:14

It would be interesting if member HELIUM from Japan could tell us what years the Grace cartridges were manufactured, start to finish. My guess is they were mfg from the late 1970s to the early 1990s. Also did Grace "rebadge" cartridges for other audio companies? I have seen a Goldring "aftermarket" stylus for the Grace F8 that looked identical to the original. Were their any other aftermarket stylus for Grace cartridges? HELIUM I'm not totally surprised that in Japan the Grace cartridges are not a big item since you have so many terrific cartridges equal or better that were never exported. Also surprised at the prices of used/vintage audio equipment in Japan that surpass USA prices.

bastlnut
long player
long player
Posts: 4391
Joined: 21 Feb 2005 16:30
Location: Bern, Switzerland, World

Post by bastlnut » 10 Apr 2007 18:09

BeEvil wrote:Hey bastlnut,

Great steal!! That's the F-9 that I have. If you do some research you'll find that the Luminance Trace (F-9L) is probably the best stylus. They used it in the top of the line F14 and F15 exclusively. I think it was the F14 and 15.

I got a similar deal recently. I purchased a Yamaha TT that came with a Supex SD-900 Rosewood cartridge. It was broken, but fixable for $300. One fixed it's worth at least $2000. Not bad for $175 purchase. Who's jealous now? LOL.

Andrew
LOL,

well knock me over......
but.......
lets play who's is bigger......

i had an old old old Grado cartridge with a brocken cantilever,
sent it to Benz for a rebuild,
Herr L wanted it for his collection as he never saw one before...very special he said,
he gave me a (one of a kind) H2 'special' open air cartridge in exchange!
you can see it in the Benz gallery.

enough of that!

i will have to take a close look at the diamond then!
the output is higher than the other versions of the F9.
the cantilever looks bulkier than the E too, in the photos of yours.
what is the difference in sound?

regards,
bastlnut

BeEvil
member
member
Posts: 240
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 13:16
Location: Ontario, Canada

Post by BeEvil » 10 Apr 2007 18:43

bastlnut,

That's a sweet Benz cart. We sure are lucky.

I wasn't able to compare the F9L to anything else in the Grace F9 line-up. I've never had another. I did compare it to a Shure V15 V and it was better in most aspects. The F9 did throw a much bigger sound stage that was the most obvious difference.

Once I get back my Supex SD-900 from The Soundsmith, I'll go head to head with the F9L. If they are close then I'll problable keep the F9 and sell the Supex. It's going to be hard as from what I've been told these are 2 of the best carts ever. Who knows I may even keep them both. Seeing how little I paid for them both, $300 US.

Andrew

Post Reply