Page 5 of 9

Grado Pricing

Posted: 05 Mar 2007 21:33
by delcam1n0
Ernie L.

Gullible US public perhaps ;) ?

delcam1n0

Re: Grado Pricing

Posted: 05 Mar 2007 21:52
by Guest
delcam1n0 wrote:Ernie L.

Gullible US public perhaps ;) ?

delcam1n0
You could be right delcam
I guess the its the same reason some americans prefer a buick to a chevy. (shrug) That chrome grill gets them every time...

Grace F-9

Posted: 05 Mar 2007 23:13
by Blue Angel
Hi All

I poisonally would never put an adhesive or a tacky substance on a cart as surely the maker in developing his product would have tried everything to make it work properly before going into series production.

Btw VE has its very own patent examiner/expert with a particular interest in phono cartridges: "Klaus" from the Netherlands.

@ Ernie, a book on carts would be exceedingly nice - even one of the coffee table kind. I don't now if cartmakers are an insolent breed or if they feel 'threatened' by approaches to supply company history because if they do, it will be a great pity. Most of us have at best, a superficial knowledge about "needles" and I for one, would dearly like to read about who was involved from the beginning, what motivated them, how long did research take them, how easy/or difficult was it before the had success, etc.

I have many books here on audio subjects - some valuable and out of print - some not. One of these books are of the coffee table variety and traces pictorially all the famous names and their products. The photographs are superb, as are the examples of the equipment.

If you're interested in acquiring this book, it's called "Sound Design" Classic audio & hi-fi design. Two names are given and I'm not sure who wrote the text or who did the photographs: Mitchell Beazley and David Attwood.

The ISBN is 1 84000 506 8 and it cost US$29,95/UKP20 & CAN$45 - not a fortune, and well worth the money.

blue

Grace

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 00:05
by Guest

The F-9 stylus assembly is very ill-fitting (the worst I have ever seen -)
The worst ! I would really like to know how many F-9s you have found in this condition? and were the stylus assemblies original Grace ?
...stands the reason the F-8 stylus would be equally as bad. It will work fine - it will fit improperly/loosely (much as the correct stylus now does).
Nope..I"m afraid I can't agree..I would have to accept the first part of your statement( that F-9s are have ill fitting stylus assemblies) as fact and then use that as proof about the F-8's being equally bad.


We all have our likes and dislikes..I have had bad experiences with Shure cartridges. Many many people enjoy both the newer and older shure models.
Did I just have a string of bad luck?
Do Shures really suck that bad?
No I doubt it ..more likely a matter of me picking cartridges that were a bad match for my tonearm and related equipment..and haphazard setup on my part...before I got educated on both.

regards
Ernie

Re: Grace F-9

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 00:18
by Guest
Hi Blue
Btw VE has its very own patent examiner/expert with a particular interest in phono cartridges: "Klaus" from the Netherlands.
Wow that interesting..I have a 10 AU.S.A. patents for styli in PDF format. I wonder if VE could use them in their library?
@ Ernie, a book on carts would be exceedingly nice - even one of the coffee table kind. I don't now if cartmakers are an insolent breed or if they feel 'threatened' by approaches to supply company history because if they do, it will be a great pity. Most of us have at best, a superficial knowledge about "needles" and I for one, would dearly like to read about who was involved from the beginning, what motivated them, how long did research take them, how easy/or difficult was it before the had success, etc.
My thoughts as well. At this point I have a much better understanding about who was involved and the time line for most of what we would consider the modern styli designs. I.G. elliptical,Shibata,VDH,Gyger, and Line contact. The history of cartridge development I have not yet tried to tackle as I really have no clue as to sources. I stumbled upon the United states patent office (USPO) during my search to better understand the different styli. That and the interviews posted on the VDH site have been my only sources.
If you're interested in acquiring this book, it's called "Sound Design" Classic audio & hi-fi design. Two names are given and I'm not sure who wrote the text or who did the photographs: Mitchell Beazley and David Attwood.
The ISBN is 1 84000 506 8 and it cost US$29,95/UKP20 & CAN$45 - not a fortune, and well worth the money.
blue
wonderful thanks for the heads up on the book. I will keep an eye out for it. Once I'm on the trail of something I rarely give up ...he he he
Regards
Ernie

Grace F-9

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 02:08
by Blue Angel
Hello Chair

Thanks for the kind words. IMO, a phono cartridge is the most stupidly simple, mechanical device with :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: an incredible number of variables to either make it superb, mediocre or outright crap. At the same time, it is also the most difficult of devices to get them to do what they're supposed to

To try and make these things in Cape Town is also a BIG problem as no-one knows anything about them and when they finally twig, you get asked "Needles?" "Are you daft?".

So, nobody knows, want to know, those that did know are either dead or retired or emigrated, your bank will not finance cartmaking ventures and to get outside firms to make parts for you - fergeddit.

It is therefore a very lonely path to walk. This is my 7th or 8th year of working two jobs and no holidays. Rock and surf angling is no more (but I've still got my rods and reels)... 8)

Here, it is altogether a very unusual situation in that every single thing to do with carts are done by one person - except the cantilever/styli asssemblies which I buy from Fritz Gyger AG. I make the armature cores, I wind coils, I machine and drill magnets, I mill wood and aluminium bodies, I anodise things, I peer at my meters ('scope and HP voltmeter) a polish little bloody screwheads and make little round nuts...egads, I must be frikken mad :roll:

blue :wink: :wink:

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 02:20
by bauzace50
Blue Angel,
NO! You are not mad! You are just a typical audiophile who took things in your own hands to make something better! This is akin to Saul B. Marantz, David Hafler, Henry Kloss, Edgar Villchur, Avery Fisher, Dr. Livingstone (ooops) and others. It is the spirit of Excelsior! Semper Fidelis!
This is analogous (yeah, right) to composers...imagine Mozart and Beethoven...they composed from their own garages also! Well, Mozart is reputed to compose in three flats, because he moved so much.
Thanks for all of youse, including those who have posted marvelous pictures of DIY projects! Semper Excelsior!
bauzace50

Re: Grace F-9

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 03:57
by helium
In Japan, it is lunchtime now.

Hello Blue
Sorry, I don't know other Japanese cartridge makers such as Audio Technica or Nagaoka well, both have the long history and made many products. I tried to examine Japanese websites and books, but I couldn't find any information about AT2003VX, AT23a and Nagatron HA-9000. Possibly the name of these products may have been different from Japan abroad.

Hello Ernie L
In early '80s, the improved version of F-9 was unveiled too. It was "F-14". And limited models called "Asakura's one(MC)" and "Asakura's Two(F-9 compatible MM)" existed. I will upload the information about these models tonight(in Japan).

Hello BeEvil
F-8 is not compatible with F-9 because the shape of the magnet(and the pole piece) of F-8 is square whereas these of F-9 is round.

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 05:26
by Ken
Ken wrote:delcam1n0

I have a Grace F9 Ruby that I adore, I still think it is the best sounding MM that I have ever heard.

The one sold on e-bay yesterday certainly looked like the real thing. (I will let you know when it arrives) :D

It was a Ruby Stylus with the red grip, still in original box.

Ken
Well it arived today, a perfect Grace F9 R stylus, unused in it's original red outer box and inside the original perspex container, with the Grace factory seal in place. :D :D :D

Re: Grace F-9

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 05:42
by Ken
In early '80s, the improved version of F-9 was unveiled too. It was "F-14". And limited models called "Asakura's one(MC)" and "Asakura's Two(F-9 compatible MM)" existed. I will upload the information about these models tonight(in Japan).

I wonder if because Linn Products had a close association with Grace, then the Linn Asak / Asaka Cartridge’s were really a re-badged Grace Asakura’s one(MC).

Ken

Re: Grace F-9

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 07:35
by helium
Hello Ken
Ken wrote:I wonder if because Linn Products had a close association with Grace, then the Linn Asak / Asaka Cartridge’s were really a re-badged Grace Asakura’s one(MC).

Ken
Probably these products were named after the founder of Shinagawa Musen, Akira Asakura. Though the fat body shape of Linn Asak / Asaka is different from slender Asakura's One, both products were developed based on F-10, I suppose.

Grace F-9

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 11:24
by Blue Angel
Hi again All

@ Esteemed Helium: You are located in the best place to dig out ancient cartridge mysteries and your interest is much appreciated. If you're interested in the mentioned things made in your country in the 'golden age' of analogue, send me a PM with your email particulars and I will return some pics of them. All three items I wrote about are superb and the best of the best. VE member bastlnut (or starboy?) posted once a pic of a black variant of that AT23a.

@ b50: Those famous gentlemen you mentioned left incomparable legacies. I'm not sure if it was Mozart or Ludwig von B who liked to watch marching bands and if it was LvB, maybe this is why he became deaf?

@Ken: Lucky devil :D

blue

Re: Grace F-9

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 13:59
by helium
Here are some informations about Grace cartridges.
http://helium.img.jugem.jp/20070306_332095.jpg
Left:Level II(F-8 compatible),right:F-14(F-9 compatible)
http://helium.img.jugem.jp/20070306_332123.jpg
http://helium.img.jugem.jp/20070306_332098.jpg
I made these charts ever since I came home, and now it's time to say good night...

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 16:15
by BeEvil
Thanks helium. Welcome to the site. You are a wealth of information on Grace. I look forward to learning from your posts.

Andrew

Re: Grace F-9

Posted: 06 Mar 2007 16:43
by Guest
Ken wrote:
In early '80s, the improved version of F-9 was unveiled too. It was "F-14". And limited models called "Asakura's one(MC)" and "Asakura's Two(F-9 compatible MM)" existed. I will upload the information about these models tonight(in Japan).

I wonder if because Linn Products had a close association with Grace, then the Linn Asak / Asaka Cartridge’s were really a re-badged Grace Asakura’s one(MC).

Ken
Ken I remember reading (somewhere?) that Grace was the oem supplier of cartridges for Linn. Imagine, buy a Linn and it comes with an F-9.