Grace F-9

the thin end of the wedge
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Post by Guest » 09 Feb 2007 03:17

BeEvil wrote:Hi all,

Ernie L. About my "handle". It's actually my last name. Bevil. Even my license plate is BE EVIL and my wife's plate is EVN EVLR. LOL. All my friends call me that. It's my nickname. Not because I'm evil, because it's my name.

Hope this clears things up.

Andrew
Yes indeed..thanks...call me old fashioned but it's nice to know I'm not communicating with a devil worshiper ! .
regards
Ernie L

BeEvil
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Post by BeEvil » 09 Feb 2007 05:08

No devil worship here. I'm in to music worship. Sometimes that may be just as bad. LOL. I hope my handle hasn't offended anyone or put them off from corresponding with me. I'm here just like the rest of you. To learn and talk to others like us.

Andrew

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Post by bauzace50 » 09 Feb 2007 05:11

Hi,
good to know!
bauzace50

delcam1n0
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Grace Cartridges & Garrard 401

Post by delcam1n0 » 09 Feb 2007 10:39

Hi Blue, hi all

Dont know if you ever looked thru the .pdf Grace
F9 files in the VE library? News to really gladden your
heart there Blue: All Grace cartridges in their day were
tested with CBS/Victor test records on a Garrard 401 with
a Grace G945 arm....(Anybody has a pic of a G945??)

So for your new 401 project you've already
got 66.6 % of all the necessary goodies...;)
Just that Grace 945 is still missing...

Other carts made by Grace in the mid 70s, not mentioned in
the VE files, but which I vaguely remember selling, were the
"F-9 Gold", the "F-9 E Ruby" and the "F-9 R" (Which had a
.65 mil radial) There may well have been others. They were
imported into SAfrica by Glenns as far as I remember (then
also distributors of KEF & Sansui )

I really wonder whether those two Sugano brothers you
mention respectively founded Grace and Supex though?
Shinegawa Musen (Grace) later went from building MMs to MCs
and as such produced the F10 and F11 series of cartridges. Not
really likely if brother Yoshiaki was at the same time making
Supex 900 carts or? Unless they eventually had a really bad
fallout of course....Or if Supex stopped trading at around that
same period? But then as you say Y. went on to Koetsu....

Maybe VE Yoshi can really enlighten
us as far as that is concerned..

regards/delcam1n0

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Post by davidsss » 09 Feb 2007 11:37

Well my Grace cart has a gold body, clear stylus and simply has grace written on the body. Looking at that earlier pic that cart has plastic around the body which mine doesn't have. I looked on the Cartridge database but couldn't work out which one it is. I'll have to take a pic and put it up here and see if anyone knows better.

Edit: looking at the cartridge database, this time at home rather than at work, ie: where the cartridge is, it looks like an F8L. Are these ok? I figure the needle is probably stuffed although I've hardly used it in 20 years, I know nothing about whether it was used a lot before I had it.

DS

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Grace F-9

Post by Blue Angel » 09 Feb 2007 13:12

Guys, Guys :D

@EnieL, Davidsss, Delcam1n0 and the non-evil one :lol: :lol:

Your knowledge and affinity for cart history are heartwarming :D

It is very difficult to make carts and the earlier pioneers should not be forgotten. I hope what I have to say will not be thought of as hyperbole (or self-agrandisement) but the skills to make carts are similar in some ways to making a fine guitar, violin or flute. Some firms like AT, Shure, Ortofon, and Benz were clever and industrious enough to automate cartridge production but a lot of handwork still remains.

blue

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Post by Guest » 09 Feb 2007 13:22

davidsss wrote:
Edit: looking at the cartridge database, this time at home rather than at work, ie: where the cartridge is, it looks like an F8L. Are these ok?

DS
The grace manual in the VE library says this about the F-9.."The cartridge body is based on the excellent and proven F-8 design, but has been improved by the reduction of impedance and tip mass to allow reproduction to over 60 khz."

in other words you have an excellent cartridge that will not play quad ,cd-4 etc...Do you play surround sound LP's? I'd be perfectly happy with an F-8 re-tiped with a modern slyli. I think they are the sleeper cartridge..shhhh don't tell anyone..let em keep paying ridiculous prices for the F-9E and ruby.

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Post by davidsss » 10 Feb 2007 00:56

Well with that rap I should give it a spin. My main cartridge is the Ortofon MC15 SuperII and before that the Supex. But the Grace has basically been sitting in it's headshell propped in the spare headshell holder for years. I should try it out. Surround LPs?? I have a couple of quad LPs (Machinehead, Dark Side) which get played occasionally but my system is stereo (almost got a quad amp when I was younger but just missed it - about 25 years ago) so I'm not sure if it would make much difference. I can easily avoid those records. I might give the Grace a spin just to hear the difference in sound but I'll probably stay with the Ortofon for most records.

DS

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Post by BeEvil » 11 Feb 2007 06:31

Way to go TheChairGuy!! Yet another endangered species saved. Now if I can get my hands on a stylus for my beauty, I'll be singing it's praises as well. One day....

Glad this topic helped at least one person. Maybe there will be more of you pulling out your old Grace F-9 and giving it a whirl.

Andrew

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Post by BeEvil » 11 Feb 2007 15:23

TheChairGuy
Andrew/BeEvil - why not just have SoundSmith in New York re-tip it with a ruby line stylus beauty for $250.00? NOS stylus for Grace's are going for about that now.....and it'll only be the aluminum, elliptical one for that price. If this cartridge keeps providing me pleasure for years and I wear the needle down to the nub, I think this is the first cartridge I'd actually consider re-tipping. It's superb and would only be better with a new ruby line stylus (probably drop the effective tip mass, listed at .55 mg now, down a bit at the very least. Never a bad thing in itself, all other things equal)
That's the problem. I have the F-9 Cartridge but I don't have a stylus. If I had a stylus then that would be a perfect solution.

Keep enjoying your new "re-found" gem. Hope it brings you years of enjoyment.

Andrew

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Grace F-9

Post by Blue Angel » 11 Feb 2007 20:41

Hi chairguy @ andrew/ be_evil

There are no rubber parts inside the Grace body. I suppose the silicone fluid is relatively harmless but I wouldn't do it. Elsewhere I posted about my theory of vibrating audio component masses which one would also find inside cartridges. Although I would not risk squirting any fluid into an mm cart, it could be that you 'damped the coils' IF you think it had benefit.

My own F-9 with the limegreen grip is no longer original. I got it with a whacked cantilever some years back and arouinf that time, fitted a Gyger FG11 stylus assembly. I've never tried anything else in it as the Grace has a very unusual fitting for the stylus suspension, a different cylindrical magnet and if I rember correctly, its damper fits like that of a moving coil cart.

@be evil

All need not be lost. A precision machinist/audiophile/analogue afficionado with passion for the good things of the past - may be able to machine the brass cantilever suspension holder for you. Come to think of it, one should be able also to do away with the stylusholder's green/red grips as well. Think of something like a v/dHul Black beauty. Just the naked brass tube and the cantilever showing. Maybe I'll do this at some time...

blue

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Embroidering the Grace Theme

Post by delcam1n0 » 11 Feb 2007 23:51

(Blue's quote:
...Maybe I'll do this at some time...)


And perhaps call it a Cape Blue?
Or maybe even The Cape Grace??

Really looking forward to that one !

delcam1n0

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Grace F-9

Post by Blue Angel » 12 Feb 2007 00:19

Hello delcam1n0

Cape Grace is perfect :D

I'll send over someone with a 'passion gap' for you to remind you of Ape Town,hehe :wink:

A rare chek abof to see if the spelin her iss OK an by Jewpitor, I saw I speled my sity like abof 8) Ol' hebits die slo.

bue :wink:

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Post by BeEvil » 12 Feb 2007 02:03

Thanks guys. I wouldn't know anyone who could make up an assembly like that for my F-9...or do I? Were you offering Blue Angel?

Actually, I do know of a place near where I work that may take the time go through their inventory and find a replacement stylus. If I can't get one from there then I'll try looking for the Gyger FG11.

Great ideas. I'll let you know how I do.

Andew[/code]

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Grace F-9

Post by Blue Angel » 12 Feb 2007 09:20

Hi BeEvil

No soliciting for trade here, sorry. I haven't done it yet (making a new brass cylinder a la F-9) with all the inside bits. Should be an interesting sonic exercise though. I'll post if I do.

Good luck with finding a substitute. There are lots of cylindrical stylus holder assemblies from way back, like Empire, Stanton and Pickering but none of the others to my knowledge, used the same arrangement inside the cylinders which Grace did. The Graces worked on the same principles as moving magnet carts do with a very small magnet attached to the rear of their cantilevers but they had a different arrangement with the position of their dampers, the shape of the magnet and the attachment of a suspension wire.

One never really knows when rarities are spotted or come your way. So, keep looking.

blue

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