Andante E

the thin end of the wedge
duner
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Andante E

Post by duner » 29 May 2012 05:36

I have an Andante E cartridge with a broken cantilever, is the Sumiko Pearl the replacement stylus for this cartridge? It looks identical to the Andante E.
Any help would be appreciated.

Doubleplay
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Re: Andante E

Post by Doubleplay » 29 May 2012 22:17

Hi and welcome to VE,

Andante F-9E (if this is the one you have) is a rebadged Grace F-9E, sold by Sumiko. And no, the stylus is not the same as Sumiko Pearl https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_d ... rlo=&prhi=

Styli for these are rare as hens teeth, så i guess your best option would be a retip at Soundsmith http://www.sound-smith.com/

Duntov
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Re: Andante E

Post by Duntov » 09 Jul 2019 11:45

Doubleplay wrote:
29 May 2012 22:17
Andante F-9E (if this is the one you have) is a rebadged Grace F-9E, sold by Sumiko.
The Andnte E is not a rebadged Grace F-9E. The Grace F-9E was manufactured by Shinagawa Musen and has different specifications and physical characteristics. The Grace however was imported into other countries using Sumiko's distribution network.

Collux
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Re: Andante E

Post by Collux » 09 Jul 2019 13:27

duner wrote:
29 May 2012 05:36
........is the Sumiko Pearl the replacement stylus for this cartridge?
It may very well be an option.
As the heritage is the A&R P77, Excel ES-70 carts

Note: for the A&R P77 there are 2 types.
https://www.musonic.co.uk/index.php?mai ... vk9rrgnet3

See this recent thread which I contributed to.
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 77#p985643

This is all caveat emptor and YMMV.

Collux
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Re: Andante E

Post by Collux » 09 Jul 2019 15:27


stevoz
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Re: Andante E

Post by stevoz » 10 Jul 2019 10:14

Duntov wrote:
09 Jul 2019 11:45
Doubleplay wrote:
29 May 2012 22:17
Andante F-9E (if this is the one you have) is a rebadged Grace F-9E, sold by Sumiko.
The Andnte E is not a rebadged Grace F-9E. The Grace F-9E was manufactured by Shinagawa Musen and has different specifications and physical characteristics. The Grace however was imported into other countries using Sumiko's distribution network.
.....and branded as Andante. Andante are Grace. It's a fact. :)

stevoz
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Re: Andante E

Post by stevoz » 10 Jul 2019 12:55

stevoz wrote:
10 Jul 2019 10:14
.....and branded as Andante. Andante are Grace. It's a fact. :)
I should have added....in the US and Canada.

DeepEnd
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Re: Andante E

Post by DeepEnd » 15 Jul 2019 09:17

stevoz wrote:
10 Jul 2019 12:55
stevoz wrote:
10 Jul 2019 10:14
.....and branded as Andante. Andante are Grace. It's a fact. :)
I should have added....in the US and Canada.
I’m slightly surprised by this statement about Andante being a Grace F9. On my resistance and inductance measurements they are virtually the same as the A&R, Rega (R100), DEFT, Sumiko bodies rather than the lower resistance/Inductance of the Grace F9 series (the Grace also had a circular tube on the stylus vs the square of the others).

It may be yours has a lower inductance/resistance than the models I’ve tested. Is it possible to check it?

Albus
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Re: Andante E

Post by Albus » 15 Jul 2019 18:07

Greatings,
my SUMIKO PEARL comes with (L/R) DC Resistance 539/536 ohms, Coil Inductance 518/500 mH.
Albus

stevoz
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Re: Andante E

Post by stevoz » 16 Jul 2019 02:33

DeepEnd wrote:
15 Jul 2019 09:17
stevoz wrote:
10 Jul 2019 12:55
stevoz wrote:
10 Jul 2019 10:14
.....and branded as Andante. Andante are Grace. It's a fact. :)
I should have added....in the US and Canada.
I’m slightly surprised by this statement about Andante being a Grace F9. On my resistance and inductance measurements they are virtually the same as the A&R, Rega (R100), DEFT, Sumiko bodies rather than the lower resistance/Inductance of the Grace F9 series (the Grace also had a circular tube on the stylus vs the square of the others).

It may be yours has a lower inductance/resistance than the models I’ve tested. Is it possible to check it?
Well, I never said it was an F9, just that it is a Grace. I'm not sure what Japanese Grace models became what Adante models in Nth America.....I just know that Grace made Andante. :)

This is from a history of Grace I discovered a few years back and appears in this thread:

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... rs#p686694

"Their products also appeared under the Andante trademark in the late 70's and early 80's but it's unclear if they owned that trademark, they also appear to have supplied Linn with a pickup design or 2 as an OEM."

There's not a lot of info to be found out there re: Grace. :shock:

62vauxhall
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Re: Andante E

Post by 62vauxhall » 17 Jul 2019 17:16

I am a little surprised that Andante is assigned some credibility.

Decades ago, I was employed by a large audio and record retailer where there were scads of cartridges in inventory. Some, like Andante, were brands I've never heard of or saw anywhere else but there so just assumed them to be for those who wanted to spend as little as possible on a cartridge. Their "stablemates" at that end of the price spectrum was a brand actually called Spectrum, then Azden and Piezo.

At no time did I pay them any heed. Never sold a single one or even bother giving them a listen. Far too many recognized major brands were on hand so there seemed little point in bothering with those.

stevoz
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Re: Andante E

Post by stevoz » 18 Jul 2019 07:27

62vauxhall wrote:
17 Jul 2019 17:16
I am a little surprised that Andante is assigned some credibility.

Decades ago, I was employed by a large audio and record retailer where there were scads of cartridges in inventory. Some, like Andante, were brands I've never heard of or saw anywhere else but there so just assumed them to be for those who wanted to spend as little as possible on a cartridge. Their "stablemates" at that end of the price spectrum was a brand actually called Spectrum, then Azden and Piezo.

At no time did I pay them any heed. Never sold a single one or even bother giving them a listen. Far too many recognized major brands were on hand so there seemed little point in bothering with those.
Missed out there then..... :D

Duntov
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Re: Andante E

Post by Duntov » 19 Jul 2019 21:54

stevoz wrote:
10 Jul 2019 10:14
Duntov wrote:
09 Jul 2019 11:45
Doubleplay wrote:
29 May 2012 22:17
Andante F-9E (if this is the one you have) is a rebadged Grace F-9E, sold by Sumiko.
The Andnte E is not a rebadged Grace F-9E. The Grace F-9E was manufactured by Shinagawa Musen and has different specifications and physical characteristics. The Grace however was imported into other countries using Sumiko's distribution network.
.....and branded as Andante. Andante are Grace. It's a fact. :)
I was specifically referring to the F-9 and no it was not rebranded as an Andante E. Rebranding means taking the same exact product and just changing the label on it. Again, the two cartridges are physically different and have different specifications. That is a fact. I never said Andante were not made by Grace. Now if you have any original Andante cartridge user's sheets that say they were manufactured by Shinagawa Musen, then please show them as I am a history buff. I am not the type that believes internet articles unless they are backed up by the manufacturer's documentation. Otherwise it is just words written by someone that we don't even know.

Duntov
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Re: Andante E

Post by Duntov » 19 Jul 2019 23:58

Just to add to this conversation a bit more:

Grace is not a company but just a trademark of Shinagawa Musen Co., Ltd.: https://trademarks.justia.com/731/70/gr ... 70388.html
Grace Trademark.JPG
(27.41 KiB) Downloaded 65 times
Andante is a trademark of Sumiko: https://trademarks.justia.com/735/11/an ... 11198.html
Andante First Trademark.JPG
(14.5 KiB) Downloaded 66 times
The Sumiko trademark was owned by Sumiko: https://trademarks.justia.com/735/11/an ... 11198.html
Sumiko First Trademark.JPG
(25.29 KiB) Downloaded 64 times
Sumiko trademark is now owned by McIntosh: https://trademarks.justia.com/863/96/su ... 96476.html
Sumiko McIntosh.JPG
(25.86 KiB) Downloaded 65 times
Sumiko did make their own cartridges but also imported and distributed for other companies. Andante documents have the Sumiko trademark on them. I am still looking for concrete documents that show who actually manufactured/made the Andante cartridges.

Duntov
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Re: Andante E

Post by Duntov » 20 Jul 2019 00:12

All Sumiko trademarks:

SUMIKO, INC. Trademarks
THE ARM
PHONOGRAPH TONE ARMS
Owned by: SUMIKO, INC.
Serial Number: 73510992

ALCHEMIST
PHONOCARTRIDGES FOR ATTACHMENT TO PHONOGRAPH TONE ARMS
Owned by: SUMIKO, INC.
Serial Number: 73511115

TWEEK
ELECTRICAL CONTACT ENHANCING FLUID
Owned by: SUMIKO, INC.
Serial Number: 73511145

SUMIKO
PHONOCARTRIDGES FOR ATTACHMENT TO PHONOGRAPH TONE ARMS, PHONOGRAPH TONE ARMS AND ELECTRICAL AND AUDIO PREAMPLIFIERS
Owned by: SUMIKO, INC.
Serial Number: 73511146

TALISMAN
PHONOCARTRIDGES FOR ATTACHMENT TO PHONOGRAPH TONE ARMS
Owned by: SUMIKO, INC.
Serial Number: 73511148

ANDANTE
PHONOCARTRIDGES FOR ATTACHMENT TO PHONOGRAPH TONE ARMS
Owned by: SUMIKO, INC.
Serial Number: 73511198

TALISMAN
PHONOCARTRIDGES FOR ATTACHMENT TO PHONOGRAPH TONE ARMS
Owned by: SUMIKO, INC.
Serial Number: 73747994

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