Shure M75-6S

the thin end of the wedge
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patleaver
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Shure M75-6S

Post by patleaver » 22 Jan 2009 02:22

What can you folks tell me about this cart?

Alec124c41
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Post by Alec124c41 » 22 Jan 2009 04:25

http://ss634.fusionbot.com/cgi-bin/ss_q ... h+Site.y=9
You could put a better stylus on it. Eliptical is usually better than spherical.

Cheers.
Alec

Edit link

Guest

Post by Guest » 22 Jan 2009 12:00

Hi,

To use the link you have to copy and paste all of it into a browser.

The "easy mount" does not inspire mechanical rigidity confidence.


Paladin
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Post by Paladin » 27 Jan 2009 05:49

The 6S is a .6-mil Spherical and should give you fairly high output with good sound.

In producing the M75 Type 1, I think Shure had accidentally made universal cartridges. We called them “chameleon cartridges”, masters of disguise because they could accept virtually any Shure stylus we threw at them- even a V15 III stylus in a pinch. The Type 1’s were just simple metal bodies mounted on stamped metal clips, the ultimate budget cartridges. They were great as I didn’t even have to use special mounting screws. The “improved” Type 2 buttoned up the interchangeability feature by using plastic obstructions. And Shure continued making obstructions for future generations of cartridges. But the Type 1 using a fine stylus like a HyperElliptical blade was a performer for a bargain price.

People used to turn them in because they were told they were “wobbly” so I would buy them for 10¢. When I got enough, I started selling them for $15 with a new stylus. Funny, many times I would have the hardest time unclipping them yet the Type 2's sometimes came unglued. It still happens now- I had to glue my modern M97xE back together.

For the Type 1, the varieties of styluses are a secret.

Don’t lose that cartridge or even better- I’ll buy it for 10¢!

http://i44.tinypic.com/s5ima9.jpg

fantasia
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Post by fantasia » 27 Jan 2009 13:09

you are a teaser as we might say Palladin.

i do get your drift, the M110He, is one stylus and several others i cant quite make out from the pics.

Question does the m75 suitable armed sound as good as the M91 well armed?????????


Fantasia :shock: :D

Chambi95
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Post by Chambi95 » 27 Jan 2009 16:18

The M91 is the same metal body, but with an extra plastic shell...... i don't know if they are different electric caracteristic, but i experiment it is possible to separate shell from body with the M91 and so put a M75 into the plastic shell of a M91 !

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Post by Paladin » 27 Jan 2009 16:18

Tease? LOL...Shure!

Fantasia, they all sound excellent. Why not? The sound-engines are the same.

I look at it from a manufacturers view. Cartridges are simple devices so there are only going to so many ways to make them. Manufacturers would figure a way to standardizing parts to shave costs. Ever see the car, VCR & DVD, manufacturers work? They create variety from the same basic design.

I think Shure learned from car manufacturers. If Shure made cars then the tires wouldn’t fit their different models. Engineer a new plastic top, change a name then they are “all-new” and they charge more. It is a simple and effective way to segregate customers, the snob appeal.

Like any product, there are a few variations. In cartridges, using a simple ohm meter test can show that. There were stylus differences- some for the ham-fisted and others went on decent equipment. There were advances in design. But one cartridge, the M75, would fit variations like fitting premium, heavy-duty, or cost effective tires. The M75's were forward and backwards compatible. The cartridges are light enough, strong enough, and designed to use, perhaps accidentally, variations of styluses.

The cartridges in the picture are the M75 Type 1 & 2. The clones are the M55, M91, M95, M97HE, M97xE, V15 Type III HyperElliptical, and you figured out the M110 (with a modified JICO stylus.) The V15 clone takes a slight modification to join the parts.

fantasia
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Post by fantasia » 28 Jan 2009 03:10

Yes Paladin i have discovered a similar,

Parallel with AT cartridges some of the Th AT10,!,!2 seem to share the same sound engine with the 13,14,15,20 series.

the plastic holder prevents you from seating some higher stylii to a lower body but also the plastic moldings on the body do as well both directions up and down grade.

when i get my hands on another AT10.11.12 clone i might do the required surgery!!!


Great contribution
you have some great sounding carts there also, the sound would be warmer and not as clinical as some modern shures?????

Fantasia :D

Paladin
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Post by Paladin » 28 Jan 2009 05:57

To me, older Shure’s had more soul then the current crop. Most of there products were good. Some styluses stunk, the fat heavy-duty ones. I think the pinnacle for Shure was back in 1971 through 1985. Then CDs took over and Shure shaved off model lines then moved parts and assembly to Mexico so the product line, the sound, seemed to lose the old soul. But the good news is there are so many of their older cartridges out there that they remain plentiful. It is just figuring them out and looking for styluses and watching stylus quality is the problem- unless we own M75’s.

I own the AT12, 13, & 15 plus a couple of newer and lesser ones. AT makes interchanging even harder then Shure. And I think AT had more “lateral” models then Shure did.

fantasia
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Post by fantasia » 28 Jan 2009 13:11

you make me go and lay my hands on an M75 or a M001 body!!!


i have an RXP3 which is another p mount clone, which from your earlier post (low cost carts) take a lot of stylii as well,

it has it original stylus which frankly compared to my AT311E/12s sucks by comparison!!! upgraded HMMMMMMMMMMM
but the 75/91 path offers huge possibilities how do you compar the AT12to the similarly armed 75/91?????? eg somthing like a shibata installed????

I would be interested to know

Fantasia :D

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Post by Paladin » 28 Jan 2009 18:14

The coffee was strong this morning and the keyboard is going to get a warm up. I also think the cold medicine and chocolate candy are kicking in. I’m having fun.

I think the irony is the AT120E sounds like the old world Shure.

The modern Shure, all two of them, well, I reserve my opinion to keep the peace. We know Shure knows how to do it, can do it, and are being lazy.

Personally, I think Shure is a profit-first company. When CDs came out they dropped the ball completely. I would have thought a company so entrenched to cartridges would work harder to show the public, give them a hard shot, to show up the upstart CDs. They could have since records have so much more resolution. No, they sat and shrunk then weakly gave lukewarm cartridges for either a bottom line price or something only the hardhead with deep wallets would buy. I liked Shure but if their ship is sinking, I’m jumping ship for something better. We know Shure was a major player and left the quiet battlefield in disarray with lots parts to choose from. Many parts are found cheaply even today, decades after the CD war was over. For fun, I take the Shure leftovers to see if I can make them work. The M75 is a very happy and successful story. You should try one. Did I give an opinion?

I don’t believe Shure should make a people work hard to get sounds when I can go to another company and get something easier to use right off the shelf. They are the experts and I don’t have the facilities, fondness, or the time to do it. I think the AT120E just has the right combination to make good sounds. I even put away my AT15Sa because the 120E sounds so wholesome and right, very balanced, but without the Shure bass bloom. It is another one to try.

I suppose I am a cheapskate at heart. I try to find my best then I go down the ladder to find the differences. As you can easily guess, I have no problems with making Frankenstein cartridges and surprisingly found out that cartridges have more similar characteristics then differences. I know that taken to extremes, many cartridges will fall down but then how many records have music taken to limits? Records were made for the lowest common denominator and it is fun to see how much we can extract out of them. If I have an exquisite record then I use a cartridge that will do it justice. So if I can find, or make, a cartridge at a budget that matches my fancy arsenal then I’m happy and I don’t give a hoot about what anyone says. And I love to share. My records and wallet have survived for decades.

I think a lot of cart manufacturers need to keep people in the dark and give their products either a mystical or super-science mystique about them. Under Faraday’s law, there are only so many sound-engine/stylus combinations that work and it is just a matter of refining and for us to find them. So I found experimenting can be cheap, fun, and enlightening.

The M75 cartridges have good sound-engines but the styluses were the weak spot, the heavy-duty styluses works but in a better system sound dull. They couldn’t track the real lows without sounding murky, the midrange is pushed back one level, and the highs weren’t inspiring. I think boring is the right word to fit. But inserting a newer Shure stylus with thinner cantilevers and better compliance like from later M75, M91 and later designs turns them into budget white knights. Given the right parts, they sound excellent.

fantasia
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Post by fantasia » 29 Jan 2009 01:33

Thanks palladin/will,
a man after my own Audio heart!!!

My Horror story was Having an Entre MC-1 retipped with a Garrott Micro scanner, only to find
1. it was just different not better than my Micro scanner Grace F-8!!!

2. It died a few months later with lots of hours still left on the stylus, it is beyond economic repair.!!

I have tried to lay my hands on an upper AT but got Guzzumped at the last second on a At15Sa ( and at a silly price). I acquired my current At311E/at12s really an At10-12 series clone as i found a cheap source of stylii!! my other gem is the Excell es70x4 also a bonded shibata(which blue angel says gyger retipps very well)
can also get stylii cheaply they work well in my Rega rb-300.


but your creative Shure approach ( M75/91 body)seems to be the way to
go as the stylii combinations are many My old M91/EEI parabolic was very close behind my micro scannered Grace F-8.

My question, is what would work compliance wise in a rega-300 as it is medium not low mass.

I await your insight Guru!!

Fantasia :D

P.S. Like you my MM cart Use over the years means my Lps still have low wear, as nothing i play really gets more than 1.5 grams VTF

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Post by Paladin » 29 Jan 2009 03:25

A ruined cartridge is a sad day. I will hold my head down in sorrow. I creamed my very new stylus on my M97xE when I first got it. Out of the box, the stylus holder was on crooked and I pulled the jammed cantilever. You can guess what happened. The stylus pulled out and the arc of my arm slammed the arm of my chair. I had forgotten my rule to leave a clear spot. The cantilever had the most perfect arc! I didn’t think aluminum could do that. No kink at all! I felt bad but soon I saw the opportunity to make it better. No matter as I didn’t like the sound of it so its quick second life uses an old style M97HE Era IV stylus. Later, I got a proper M97xE stylus but still do not like the sound so it remains new in the box. I hope you buried your cartridge with respect.

The AT120E are honeys and should work with medium weight arms. I am not exactly sure because I have my turntables with heavier arm stored away. Presently, I use two tables with S & J arms but both use electronic damping. The tables come to life with low compliance cartridges. I think I just like to watch the arms as they flow over the record. I rarely use my MC cartridge because it needs the extra weight to track. I think MM carts can sound just as good as MC carts if they are tracked lightly with a high compliance insert. Can you can tell I am from the old school high-compliance camp?

I am at the disadvantage because the trend is going to medium compliance. To match a cartridge to arm I use a general approach. The tracking weight gives me an idea of what to expect. Either step lively or go heavy and dig in. They both work but one leaves very little damage but can damage more if not set up right. I think that is why people prefer the safety of medium tracking cartridges. Well, I think it is a fine art to setting up a high compliance system. I really enjoy doing it. Right now I am listening through a very old Bang & Olufsen SP12 cartridge and I believe it is a supreme cartridge, a rather unknown sleeper. Tough to find and the styluses are gone. At $200 a pop, I don’t think I could afford the luxury of a new SP12 stylus. I don’t put all my eggs in one basket; I am not just a Shure fan.

A “guru?” No way! That would mean I knew it all. I am still learning but having fun doing it. That is why I’m here; to learn.

What do you use on your table, or tables? Got lots of records? Hmm, that reminds me- it is time to go around the corner to Rasputin Music and check the record bins! It could take a while.

http://i44.tinypic.com/o7m16f.jpg

fantasia
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Post by fantasia » 29 Jan 2009 04:17

yes drool,


your record store!!! In Country New South Wales on the Murray river (Corowa) Australia
a cultural desert for LPs. Australia is by and large Digitalis a joke there is a disease( most people don't know how good an lp sound) even on my Rega-300 rewired and the systemdek 2 it gets good sound

i play my 500-600 lps in batches as they take me the WAF wife acceptance factor is always present!!

but some ordinary even quite old Lps sound great if you have something better than a .4x.7 elliptical my shure rpx3 with said stylus sucks!!
but iam sure that the hyper elliptical will make it sing!!!

I agree many MM are very underated and there are sleepers .

I will be in touch

Fantasia :D

Paladin
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Post by Paladin » 29 Jan 2009 06:01

Just records taking up about one-third of the store, blocks away. Well, it was a bum trip. They closed 10 minutes before I got there, 7:30 pm; they are in recession-hours mode. No matter, a two minute trip tomorrow and the same batch will be there or I can go to my backup record store, also two blocks away. Do you think the competition is strong? Then next to Replay Records is a nice boutique store with the records way in the back. I’m awash with records. I have a small collection of only 1800, about half 45s. I know someone with 5000 or more.

My wife has relatives in Darwin and she lived there for quite a few years. No, she didn’t have LPs, she had a great Aiwa cassette player/stereo recorder/AM/FM/EQ, a, let’s see, HS-J470. I have it now! She doesn’t share the same passion for records, preferring the convenience of MP3. She can’t deal with the monster LPs and the “too big” turntables. She is scared of them, or me.

I’m still using the SP12 but will switch back to the M75 soon. You really need to get one then the world of Shure styluses will be yours. It is the key to great budget sound.

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