For Ortofon Fans III

the thin end of the wedge
Wised
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For Ortofon Fans III

Post by Wised » 12 Feb 2020 23:05

Since the previous vid was so popular here's another one!


Flame away

dagfinn
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by dagfinn » 12 Feb 2020 23:38

Nice speakers, I want some (but can't have). Rickie Lee Jones wows me more than Bach ;).

Wised
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by Wised » 13 Feb 2020 00:49

Im a big fan of Chris Thine. I saw him live on a lark and discovered that the guy is a true virtuoso of not only the mandolin but also other stringed instruments. Its fun to listen to true "congenital" talent because its rare indeed. I thought of doing Stan Getz but I wanted something that most people havent heard. Yoyo Ma needs no introduction. The Rickie Lee is also a very rare recording of her "standard" song. Thats why many thought it was screwy.
Last edited by Wised on 13 Feb 2020 00:58, edited 1 time in total.

Wised
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by Wised » 13 Feb 2020 00:54

dagfinn wrote:
12 Feb 2020 23:38
Nice speakers, I want some (but can't have). Rickie Lee Jones wows me more than Bach ;).
The swap from 805D to the 803D3 was what precipitated the rest of the "merry" expenses. They are simply superb but warrant being fed with components that will let them shine!

backtotheblack
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by backtotheblack » 13 Feb 2020 17:58

i'm not a hater and i think your system is superb. buuut the utube vids sound bad or your room acoustics are well out which makes a superb system sound ermm well very 2D. its the same with most vids on utube.. people are trying to show off their gear and it dont work.

plug your phonostage into what ever you are using to record the sound with.

Agrippa
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by Agrippa » 13 Feb 2020 19:14

Wised wrote:
12 Feb 2020 23:05
Flame away
There's nothing flame-worthy about posting videos. The curious notion that one can in any way evaluate a system's sound quality through a YouTube video is another matter entirely.....

Wised
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by Wised » 13 Feb 2020 19:39

backtotheblack wrote:
13 Feb 2020 17:58
i'm not a hater and i think your system is superb. buuut the utube vids sound bad or your room acoustics are well out which makes a superb system sound ermm well very 2D. its the same with most vids on utube.. people are trying to show off their gear and it dont work.

plug your phonostage into what ever you are using to record the sound with.
Its a youtube video, compare it to other youtube videos! Making a recording that bypasses the rest of the system moots the purpose which is to have a sample of the whole system! I could digitize the PA 2.2 that I dont use anymore since the Macs MC pre is much better but that would be pretty boring and of course not a real video. No one listens to their stereo in an anechoic chamber and few have dedicated music "caves". The overwhelming majority of audio fans listen in the living room or their family room. My listening area is particularly large and has a complex tall, vaulted ceiling. What you hear is an approximation of sitting in the sweet spot about 9 feet from the speakers through a high quality stereo microphone. Stereo microphones due to their distribution pattern tend to accentuate "ambience". The recording is 24/96 but as we are all well aware is compressed somewhat by youtube. To watch appropriately you have to set youtube to HD and use decent headphones since buds don't have sufficient frequency response. I've streamed it through my computer back through the system and, of course, it doesn't sound like the real thing but its actually not a bad facsimile at all!

Wised
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by Wised » 13 Feb 2020 19:41

Agrippa wrote:
13 Feb 2020 19:14
Wised wrote:
12 Feb 2020 23:05
Flame away
There's nothing flame-worthy about posting videos. The curious notion that one can in any way evaluate a system's sound quality through a YouTube video is another matter entirely.....
I agree completely. You can, however, compare it to other vids! Of which, there are thousands.

Agrippa
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by Agrippa » 13 Feb 2020 21:10

Not really, unless they're all produced in the same manner, using identical equipment or you intimately know all the different equipment used and exactly how each device in each chain compares to every other device and exactly what their effect is on the final result. Otherwise it's a total crapshoot and you may as well judge them by throwing a dice.

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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by Wised » 13 Feb 2020 21:29

Agrippa wrote:
13 Feb 2020 21:10
Not really, unless they're all produced in the same manner, using identical equipment or you intimately know all the different equipment used and exactly how each device in each chain compares to every other device and exactly what their effect is on the final result. Otherwise it's a total crapshoot and you may as well judge them by throwing a dice.
Again its a youtube video not studio comparison. At present Im A/B ing the stream vs the actual actual record again. The stream is 44k according to the C53. What is startling is how close they are. Even the ambience is closely reproduced. Not bad at for you tube material. It goes to show that if you make a decent recording youtube is not a bad forum to show it. Of course its kind of an impossible task to fully represent a 50k audiophile system in all its splendor on a free video platform.

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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by Agrippa » 13 Feb 2020 22:49

Wised wrote:
13 Feb 2020 21:29
Again its a youtube video not studio comparison.
Of course. And I'm simply saying that I can't see the usefulness of it, beyond, of course, the obvious one of showcasing one's system.
The stream is 44k according to the C53.
44K? Meaning what?

On my end two audio streams are showing: AAC 128kb/s and WEBM OPUS 160kb/s. Both of which sound fine given the source, but isn't really what you'd call HiFi or specs which allow comparison with anything.

Wised
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by Wised » 13 Feb 2020 23:08

Its recorded at 96, ergo the youtube compression is not that bad. Its 44 although not sure if it 16 or 24 bit thus at least CD quality. Its also 1080p which exactly the resolution of the video portion. Once again not bad for free! The most noticeable defect is an excessive sense of space which is easily attributed to the single mic technique. If it were done with dual mics it would probably solve that issue. However, frequency response dynamic range are fairly well represented. The noise floor is also imperceptibly higher than in the real thing but not objectionable at all. Again I'm surprised how close it is with a simple recording setup that doesnt even break 1k meant for a DSLR ( Tascam 70D plus a Rode Video Mic X). I'm certain that a professional set up would provide a youtube vid that would be close to indistinguishable from the real thing

Agrippa
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by Agrippa » 14 Feb 2020 04:02

OK, so you were talking about the sample rate. I didn't realise, since 44K meant nothing to me, while 44.1kHz is a different matter.

So yes, of course the sound is 44.1kHz, which has nothing to do with the actual quality of the audio at all. 44.1kHz audio can be wonderful, mediocre or sh**ty depending on innumerable factors, just like audio at different sample rates. Either way I'm still just hearing what's left of the original recording you made after it's been heavily compressed with a lossy compression algorithm.

Just so we're clear: this is in no way meant as criticism of your recording skills, equipment or for that sake the resulting recording. I'm simply pointing out that YouTube is using heavy audio compression, as the main focus of development has always gone into the video side of things. The result is roughly the same as it would be if I ripped and converted a CD to 128kb/s AAC here at home - which is easily distinguished from the real thing. In my experience you'd need double that to approach the quality of the source recording as long as're talking Red Book.

Consequently I repeat what I said above, that YouTube audio specs doesn't really allow for any kind of meaningful comparison with anything other than other YouTube videos.

dagfinn
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by dagfinn » 14 Feb 2020 09:27

Wised wrote:
13 Feb 2020 23:08
Again I'm surprised how close it is with a simple recording setup that doesnt even break 1k meant for a DSLR ( Tascam 70D plus a Rode Video Mic X).
I'm surprised you think that mic and this setup sounds that good. I have Røde Stereo video mic Pro, and it's ok for it's purpose. It's a weak link, though. Also, when professionals mic up speakers, they do it in a very different way, to avoid ambience, for instance. There is really a loss of many musical/sonic elements, imaging, separation, dynamics and additions of lots of ambience in your method. The list goes on. Both channels of your mic can hear both speakeres at slightly different levels, so... crosstalk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosstalk#In_audio
mics.JPG
(85.28 KiB) Downloaded 50 times
Different mics, with different quality, properties and purposes - and ways of use to obtain different results. Recording sound the right way in high quality is a challenging task, and my ears is no longer TOL after many, many concerts and rehearsals at stupid levels without protection :( . Still I can hear lossy compression without problems, and really don't like it.

I'm here to learn, and perhaps return the favour, if I can, and to have good times with friends. You have a great system, enjoy it! Rickie Lee is on my top 5 list, and the track you shared a wonderful song... :D. I've been out of vinyl since The Magazine, and the album from your first video is now on my "must get" list, so thanks for that :D .

backtotheblack
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Re: For Ortofon Fans III

Post by backtotheblack » 14 Feb 2020 12:21

if you are saying those vids are a good representation of the actual music playing in the room then i would be very disappointed if i had spent all that cash and my system sounded like that. no seriously, its bad.

if your happy then thats all that matters and stuff the haters :wink:

it looks like you are not short of cash so if it were me i would get a professional in.

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