Which grado??

the thin end of the wedge
Chrisholt212
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Which grado??

Post by Chrisholt212 » 26 Jan 2020 04:22

I'm fairly new to the hobby and would like try a grado cart. I listen to alot of classic rock and am definitely one of those who appreciates warmth when listening to old rock records. I have three carts I am using now an at95vl a signet 5.0 and an empire LTD 400. As of right now I prefer the empire over the others for alot of my records because I like the warmer tone. A friend told me that if I like that empire I would love some of the grado carts. What would be a good entry level grado cart to try?? Thanks.

Kingshead
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Re: Which grado??

Post by Kingshead » 26 Jan 2020 04:58

I'm hearing good things about the new Prestige Black 2. And here's the thing, it's an easy move up to the 8MZ stylus at some later date.

Ricketts223
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Re: Which grado??

Post by Ricketts223 » 27 Jan 2020 00:56

I just tried a Grado Prestige Blue 2 and it instantly sounded great to my ears, but I have the dreaded hum on my cheaper Pioneer PL200 TT. I am going to set it up on my 1200mk2 next weekend and see if the hum dissappears. But I love the sound besides that.

cafe latte
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Re: Which grado??

Post by cafe latte » 27 Jan 2020 02:08

Ricketts223 wrote:
27 Jan 2020 00:56
I just tried a Grado Prestige Blue 2 and it instantly sounded great to my ears, but I have the dreaded hum on my cheaper Pioneer PL200 TT. I am going to set it up on my 1200mk2 next weekend and see if the hum dissappears. But I love the sound besides that.
The blue 2 is the one to get as the difference to the gold 2 is almost non existent, only difference is gold 2 has bitumen damping on cantilever the rest appears to be identical to the blue both in measurements of coils and quality of stylus.
Chris

Ricketts223
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Re: Which grado??

Post by Ricketts223 » 27 Jan 2020 04:10

cafe latte wrote:
27 Jan 2020 02:08
The blue 2 is the one to get as the difference to the gold 2 is almost non existent, only difference is gold 2 has bitumen damping on cantilever the rest appears to be identical to the blue both in measurements of coils and quality of stylus.
Chris
That's good information. It amazed me how quickly I enjoyed the sound. It was very easy to set up also. I wonder what it will sound like after the break in period. I have a couple ideas on the hum remedy, but haven't tried anything yet

cafe latte
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Re: Which grado??

Post by cafe latte » 27 Jan 2020 05:17

Ricketts223 wrote:
27 Jan 2020 04:10
cafe latte wrote:
27 Jan 2020 02:08
The blue 2 is the one to get as the difference to the gold 2 is almost non existent, only difference is gold 2 has bitumen damping on cantilever the rest appears to be identical to the blue both in measurements of coils and quality of stylus.
Chris
That's good information. It amazed me how quickly I enjoyed the sound. It was very easy to set up also. I wonder what it will sound like after the break in period. I have a couple ideas on the hum remedy, but haven't tried anything yet
They will hum if sl1200mk2 is last production like mine. This can be fixed by putting transformer in external box or like I did by replacing the psu for the far better Kabusa one.
Chris

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Re: Which grado??

Post by Ricketts223 » 27 Jan 2020 12:35

Interesting - thanks Chris. I noticed on my PL-200 that the hum seemed acoustic based, i.e. not noticeable at low/medium volume but would start to run away and feedback at higher volumes, so I was hoping it was just the poor suspension on the 200. When they say the Grados are not shielded, do they mean electrically or acoustically?

Sorry to hi-jack this thread. I can start another one if everyone wishes

plyscds
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Re: Which grado??

Post by plyscds » 27 Jan 2020 17:04

Ricketts223 wrote:
27 Jan 2020 12:35
Interesting - thanks Chris. I noticed on my PL-200 that the hum seemed acoustic based, i.e. not noticeable at low/medium volume but would start to run away and feedback at higher volumes, so I was hoping it was just the poor suspension on the 200. When they say the Grados are not shielded, do they mean electrically or acoustically?

Sorry to hi-jack this thread. I can start another one if everyone wishes
The Factory means "not electrically shielded"against hum. Somehow, they say, it makes the sound better.

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Re: Which grado??

Post by raphaelmabo » 27 Jan 2020 17:13

An alternative to Grado, that is shielded and works with more turntables, is Sumiko. Warm, fat sound in the Oyster-range. Or Osawa OS-301 (induced magnet) if one wants a sort of moving-iron alternative.

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Re: Which grado??

Post by cafe latte » 27 Jan 2020 22:43

Ricketts223 wrote:
27 Jan 2020 12:35
Interesting - thanks Chris. I noticed on my PL-200 that the hum seemed acoustic based, i.e. not noticeable at low/medium volume but would start to run away and feedback at higher volumes, so I was hoping it was just the poor suspension on the 200. When they say the Grados are not shielded, do they mean electrically or acoustically?

Sorry to hi-jack this thread. I can start another one if everyone wishes
Are you listening with lid open?
If so this is not the cart humming what you are describing is the music vibrating the plinth which is collected by the lid acting like an ear and feeding it back to the cart. This can be made worse depending what the turntable is sitting on a long shelf will collect more vibrations. What happens is at a particular volume the loop goes into run away and you get a big hum from the speakers. Nothing to do with the cart it is a different problem.
Chris

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Re: Which grado??

Post by Ricketts223 » 27 Jan 2020 23:33

cafe latte wrote:
27 Jan 2020 22:43
Are you listening with lid open?
If so this is not the cart humming what you are describing is the music vibrating the plinth which is collected by the lid acting like an ear and feeding it back to the cart. This can be made worse depending what the turntable is sitting on a long shelf will collect more vibrations. What happens is at a particular volume the loop goes into run away and you get a big hum from the speakers. Nothing to do with the cart it is a different problem.
Chris
Lid off. I have been using my M97xe and my 3600l without issue on the 200. It's just the Grado that hums :( I'll experiment a bit soon

cafe latte
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Re: Which grado??

Post by cafe latte » 28 Jan 2020 00:06

Ricketts223 wrote:
27 Jan 2020 23:33
cafe latte wrote:
27 Jan 2020 22:43
Are you listening with lid open?
If so this is not the cart humming what you are describing is the music vibrating the plinth which is collected by the lid acting like an ear and feeding it back to the cart. This can be made worse depending what the turntable is sitting on a long shelf will collect more vibrations. What happens is at a particular volume the loop goes into run away and you get a big hum from the speakers. Nothing to do with the cart it is a different problem.
Chris
Lid off. I have been using my M97xe and my 3600l without issue on the 200. It's just the Grado that hums :( I'll experiment a bit soon
What is turntable sitting on?
Chris

AsOriginallyRecorded
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Re: Which grado??

Post by AsOriginallyRecorded » 28 Jan 2020 00:47

Perhaps pursue the known issue of Grado hum further first. Since you play with lid off, that rabbit hole of extraneous vibrations can quickly fatigue you. Every setup is different and unique. There is not necessarily any hard and fast answer to perceived vibrations. As long as one practices reasonable techniques to maintain solid placement of the TT relative to surface, rack construction, distance from speakers, reasonable volume (this one gets ignored regularly, especially on systems with sub-woofers), it is my experience that most of the niggling problems of this hobby can be easily diagnosed and remedied. I have a Grado gold M+ on a Technics linear tracker, which sounds great as you've also experienced, no hum. It varies per system it seems. Once the Grado hum is sorted, I'd also recommend checking out either a moving iron or induced iron cartridge as raphaelmabo suggested. I have a couple different of the genre, and they are great for classic rock. Neither of them have any associated hum, the Grado's are kind of like "ugly ducklings" with this issue. Best of wishes and luck! :wink: Love your avatar...a big fan of Calvin and Hobbs

cafe latte
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Re: Which grado??

Post by cafe latte » 28 Jan 2020 01:26

AsOriginallyRecorded wrote:
28 Jan 2020 00:47
Perhaps pursue the known issue of Grado hum further first. Since you play with lid off, that rabbit hole of extraneous vibrations can quickly fatigue you. Every setup is different and unique. There is not necessarily any hard and fast answer to perceived vibrations. As long as one practices reasonable techniques to maintain solid placement of the TT relative to surface, rack construction, distance from speakers, reasonable volume (this one gets ignored regularly, especially on systems with sub-woofers), it is my experience that most of the niggling problems of this hobby can be easily diagnosed and remedied. I have a Grado gold M+ on a Technics linear tracker, which sounds great as you've also experienced, no hum. It varies per system it seems. Once the Grado hum is sorted, I'd also recommend checking out either a moving iron or induced iron cartridge as raphaelmabo suggested. I have a couple different of the genre, and they are great for classic rock. Neither of them have any associated hum, the Grado's are kind of like "ugly ducklings" with this issue. Best of wishes and luck! :wink: Love your avatar...a big fan of Calvin and Hobbs
Grado though dont hum on a turntable with shielded motor which is most of them. No hum and the hum growing with volume sounds like a feedback issue from the music to me which has nothing to do with the Grado hum.
Chris

Ricketts223
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Re: Which grado??

Post by Ricketts223 » 28 Jan 2020 02:25

AsOriginallyRecorded wrote:
28 Jan 2020 00:47
Love your avatar...a big fan of Calvin and Hobbs
Thanks :) My coworkers say it reminds them of me before my first cup of coffee in the morning...
cafe latte wrote:
28 Jan 2020 01:26
Grado though dont hum on a turntable with shielded motor which is most of them. No hum and the hum growing with volume sounds like a feedback issue from the music to me which has nothing to do with the Grado hum.
Chris
I know the PL-200 is no where near as stable and as well built as my 1200mk2, so if the Grado is good on the 1200 it will probably replace my VR450ML which I have never quite become a fan of.

My curiosity around the PL-200 is that neither my Shure or my cheap 3600L hum on it, even at loud volume, which leads me to think it's the Grado hum, and not turntable placement in relation to subwoofers, etc. So I will experiment a bit on the 200 before moving over to the 1200, best way to gain experience :) It might be a combination of hum being accentuated by higher volume causing the ramping up in the feedback as noted. I am going to try a combination of motor on/motor off with the stylus on a record and compare the results...I think if I don't get hum with motor off but I do with motor on that would give a good indication on whether it is an unshielded direct drive motor on the 200? I imagine if I repeat with motor off and I get feedback at high volume it is acoustic. I might try that trick with the other cartridges as well for comparison.

I am enjoying this :)

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