HiFi News Test LP

the thin end of the wedge
ballison78
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HiFi News Test LP

Post by ballison78 » 25 Jan 2020 00:47

I recently swapped out the Carbon on my P1 with the well-regarded Nag MP110 and it sounds great to my ears. For fun, I decided to put it through it's paces with the test LP form HiFi News. It passed most of the tests but for one curious thing. The left channel has somewhat higher output on the left channel on all of the channel balance tests with the exception of the azimuth test which is spot on. I know the anti-skate can't really be adjusted on this deck which a bummer and my results with adjusting the magnet depth were fruitless. The antiskate tests only really buzz on the final track, which is expected I understand so I think I am OK on that parameter. Think I have an issue or just ignore this anomaly? Thanks!

Collux
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by Collux » 25 Jan 2020 01:22

ballison78 wrote:
25 Jan 2020 00:47
I recently swapped out the Carbon on my P1 with the well-regarded Nag MP110 and it sounds great to my ears.
Maybe check azimuth.
Possibly run the test again with a slight increase in VTF ?

Otherwise you're probably good & all OK !

ballison78
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by ballison78 » 25 Jan 2020 02:06

I'll try what you suggest. Appreciate it.

terry-a
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by terry-a » 25 Jan 2020 02:15

I might swap the interconnects left to right and right to left to confirm it's the table and not something else in the chain.

Collux
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by Collux » 25 Jan 2020 03:17

terry-a wrote:
25 Jan 2020 02:15
I might swap the interconnects left to right and right to left to confirm it's the table and not something else in the chain.
Good suggestion!

patient_ot
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by patient_ot » 25 Jan 2020 17:13

How much of a difference are we talking? What is the channel balance spec for the cart? A lot of carts will have a tolerance of 1-2dB between the channels, meaning that one will be louder than the other.

RE: the HFN test record, I'm not sure how accurate it is and wouldn't really trust it. That thing is a toy for audiophiles, not a serious test record.

I use other test records instead (CBS + Ortofon), and records of actual music to test further. If you have a record where you know the stereo channels are balanced very well, you can use that too.

scho2684
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by scho2684 » 25 Jan 2020 17:41

patient_ot wrote:
25 Jan 2020 17:13
RE: the HFN test record, I'm not sure how accurate it is and wouldn't really trust it. That thing is a toy for audiophiles, not a serious test record.
Bravo! =D> Although I would have left the "audiophiles" out, its simply a toy...

terry-a
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by terry-a » 25 Jan 2020 20:06

patient_ot wrote:
25 Jan 2020 17:13
How much of a difference are we talking? What is the channel balance spec for the cart? A lot of carts will have a tolerance of 1-2dB between the channels, meaning that one will be louder than the other.

RE: the HFN test record, I'm not sure how accurate it is and wouldn't really trust it. That thing is a toy for audiophiles, not a serious test record.

I use other test records instead (CBS + Ortofon), and records of actual music to test further. If you have a record where you know the stereo channels are balanced very well, you can use that too.
I disagree with this for one reason. I test every cart when new with this record and a meter. Every cart but one in the last few years
tested within spec for channel balance. That one went back where they confirmed it was defective and replaced it.

In fact the channel balance test revealed a channel balance issue with my office system that turned out not to be cart related.

There may be better test records, but my experience has been that the channel balance test on this record is valid.

ballison78
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by ballison78 » 26 Jan 2020 01:44

Here are the specs for the cartridge. I expect the variance is probably within these tolerances but I will check my azimuth as suggested once I get the tool to do so. If any adjustment is necessary, I would have to use a shim to level it since there is no provision to adjust really anything on this arm.

Nagaoka MP-110 Phono Cartridge Specifications
- Type: Moving magnet
- Cantilever: Aluminum alloy
- Stylus type: Superfine polished elliptical bonded diamond with 0.4 x 0.7 mil radii
- Weight: 6.5 g
- Output voltage @ 1kHz,5cm/sec: 5mV
- Frequency response: 20Hz-20kHz
- Channel balance @ 1kHz: > 1.5dB
- Channel separation @ 1kHz: > 23dB
- Recommended loading: 47k ohms
- Dynamic compliance: 6.0 x 10-6 cm/dyne
- Static compliance: 18 x 10-6 cm/dyne
- Tracking force range: 1.5 - 2.0 g
- Break-in period: 30 hours
- Stylus replacement: Nagaoka JN-P110

felixbo
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by felixbo » 26 Jan 2020 08:09

Hi ballison78,
how much is the channel difference? Is it within the specs of Your cart (1kHz >1.5dB = ratio >0.84:1)? Swap left and right RCA connectors at the input of the preamp. Is the reading the same? Do the readings change left/right with the input cables or remain on one side.
The main question is do you hear any discords?

Cheers Felix

backtotheblack
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by backtotheblack » 28 Jan 2020 00:26

the only thing i use the HiFi news lp for is side 1, track (band) 8 for setting bias. i wish there was three of the same at the start, middle and end. they have that on side two but only at +15db where the other side is +16db.

i dont know why they even bother with track (band) 6 on side one as anything short of a feked ceramic will pass it.

arm resonance test are useful if you dont know the combo arm/cart figures

goatbreath
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by goatbreath » 28 Jan 2020 22:42

The Thakker Shure M44 G and Technics EPC 24 didn't pass that band..Level one,,they are atrocious trackers..
Their V15 III didn't pass band 7..Not great either..
Most can track level 3 I have,the Denon DL110 struggles..
I find the Test disc handy when I don't know the real tracking weight of something,
if too heavy with a 3x7 elliptical i am not using it..
Also to some degree the Anti skating bands are useful..
Infact most stuff on there maybe isn't the same as precision instruments,but it has shown up faults for me..
Unless it is the highest Anti Skating band that only is trackable with some distortion on the right hand side with one cartridge I own..I would end up with too much anti skating I think..
All in all the Hifi News Disc is more useful than the Shure ,Decca and HiFi sound ones I have..
Sure it doesn't measure like a precision instrument,but I find it useful along with a few records I really know that can show flaws up..Or have layers of detail..
I would rather have it than not for sure..

hedgehog35
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by hedgehog35 » 29 Jan 2020 10:39

Something is a 'toy' if its only function is to provide amusement when played with.
The Hi Fi News record may have its limitations but I have found it is a valuable tool when used in conjunction with that other listening device i.e. our ears.
The disc correctly confirmed mis-tracking in a brand new Ortofon 2M black which did not sound quite 'right' when played and listened to. This was later confirmed by Ortofon distributors in Germany and I received a new cartridge. So not a 'toy'!

scho2684
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by scho2684 » 29 Jan 2020 11:04

hedgehog35 wrote:
29 Jan 2020 10:39
The disc correctly confirmed mis-tracking in a brand new Ortofon 2M black which did not sound quite 'right' when played and listened to.
It was already confirmed before the HFN was used, at least that is what I'm reading here...
And in what sense has the HFN test been more specific to what already was confirmed?
HFN has a few tracks that can be used but as a whole its a bit of a toy, and a bad toy as well...
I have 2 here, both are off centre and wobbling, useless 180 gram crap...
backtotheblack wrote:
28 Jan 2020 00:26
arm resonance test are useful if you dont know the combo arm/cart figures
Have you confirmed that the test tones are what's being claimed what they are?

hedgehog35
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Re: HiFi News Test LP

Post by hedgehog35 » 29 Jan 2020 16:53

scho2684 wrote:
29 Jan 2020 11:04
hedgehog35 wrote:
29 Jan 2020 10:39
The disc correctly confirmed mis-tracking in a brand new Ortofon 2M black which did not sound quite 'right' when played and listened to.
It was already confirmed before the HFN was used, at least that is what I'm reading here...
And in what sense has the HFN test been more specific to what already was confirmed?
HFN has a few tracks that can be used but as a whole its a bit of a toy, and a bad toy as well...
I have 2 here, both are off centre and wobbling, useless 180 gram crap...
backtotheblack wrote:
28 Jan 2020 00:26
arm resonance test are useful if you dont know the combo arm/cart figures
Have you confirmed that the test tones are what's being claimed what they are?
After I had set up the Ortofon for the first time (without using the HFN disc), I became aware that some instruments (particularly violin), sounded not quite right - a slight 'edge' to the sound I had not heard before. Our ears are wonderful instruments, but they can sometimes lead us astray and so I then tested my cartridge using the HFN disc. The cartridge could just about cope with the +12dB test track but not the +14dB, on side 1 - a much poorer performance than any of the other cartridges I owned. I should also say that I was using a Michell Gyrodec and SME M2-9 arm, so the Ortofon was given every chance to perform as well as it should.
Later microscopic inspection by a local hi fi shop revealed no problem with either cantilever or diamond.
I was able to send back to the distributor with some evidence other than that of my ears.
For me the HFN had fulfilled its function, ergo, not a toy.
I use the disc when ever I set up a new cartridge, but only in conjunction with the evidence from my ears. I am sorry about the lack of quality control in the discs you have that have made them not worth using, but I can only comment on my personal experience of the product.

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