Which stylus for M97xe

the thin end of the wedge
BoringOldFart
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Which stylus for M97xe

Post by BoringOldFart » 23 Jan 2020 15:09

I have a 45 yr old Thorens D160 that is fitted with a Shure M97xe. I listen to a lot of classical music but, I really listen to all types tough my Sennheiser HD650 headphones. I've been satisfied with the stock M97xe but it is getting some age on it and I'm thinking that it is time to look for a new stylus. I can get a NOS from ebay but I've read that Jico makes some great replacement styluses. My question is about the Jico styluses. They make no fewer than 4 models for the M97xe. They make one that is a direct replacement with an elliptical and then they make their SAS models with a nude diamond, specially shaped stylus and depending on which canaliever you choose (boron, sapphire, or ruby) good grief.
I don't want zipped up highs or pumped up lows, just the flat signal off the record. Which one is going to give me the flattest most natural sound?

BMRR
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by BMRR » 23 Jan 2020 16:16

I'll answer your question with a question:

Do you want flat frequency response, or do you want a stylus that sounds the same as your original Shure stylus?

I ask this question because the frequency response of the original Shure stylus is not flat. It has a significant roll-off in the treble region. Many people like this sound and describe it as natural, but strictly speaking, it's not.

The various styli from JICO have a much flatter frequency response than the original Shure stylus, but if you've been listening to the original Shure stylus for a long time, the JICOs will seem crisp/bright by comparison because your ears were accustomed to the treble roll-off of the Shure stylus.

BoringOldFart
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by BoringOldFart » 23 Jan 2020 16:26

Ok, fair enough,. Of the 3 jico SAS models, which is the flattest?

BMRR
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by BMRR » 23 Jan 2020 16:46

The SAS Boron.

blekenbleu
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by blekenbleu » 23 Jan 2020 16:58

BoringOldFart wrote:
23 Jan 2020 16:26
Of the 3 jico SAS models, which is the flattest?
That depends on loading (especially capacitive) by your cables and preamp,
but their contact line stylus is considered an upgrade:
https://www.analogplanet.com/content/ca ... 7xe-v15xmr

FWIW, sapphire and ruby cantilevers are relatively fragile...

DeepEnd
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by DeepEnd » 23 Jan 2020 20:10

If you want listen to a SAS compared to an original stylus try downloading the tracks from this helpful site (Shure is about half way down). However also listen to the Paratrace retipped stylus as well as my personal opinion is this is the flattest response of the three options and might be slightly cheaper than the SAS.

http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/cartri ... artridges/

patient_ot
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by patient_ot » 23 Jan 2020 20:39

BMRR wrote:
23 Jan 2020 16:16
I'll answer your question with a question:

Do you want flat frequency response, or do you want a stylus that sounds the same as your original Shure stylus?

I ask this question because the frequency response of the original Shure stylus is not flat. It has a significant roll-off in the treble region. Many people like this sound and describe it as natural, but strictly speaking, it's not.

The various styli from JICO have a much flatter frequency response than the original Shure stylus, but if you've been listening to the original Shure stylus for a long time, the JICOs will seem crisp/bright by comparison because your ears were accustomed to the treble roll-off of the Shure stylus.
Funny how that works out : )

goatbreath
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by goatbreath » 23 Jan 2020 20:51

I am toying with selling my unused Shure M97Xe Styli again..
I either have 6 or 8 boxed and 2 non boxed..
Will need to have a look..
I have kept them in a cool dark place in an airtight box since I bought them..
The non boxed 2 came with Bodies in the aluminium Boxes..
I have used the supplied bits and bobs,plus the boxes are more bulky..
I have 2 bodies..
I did have 3 but broke one of the mounting lugs..
I'm still on the original stylus..
I don't use the M97Xe much..

I ended up using my M75 ED 2 cartridges..
Until I found out better,I thought all the Styli for the were of Pfanstiehl quality..
ie Awful or I had to order from Japan..
I found te non tie wire Tonar ones to be pretty decent..
I can't really find a good enough Stylus for my V15 III..
The Tonar one for that doesn't track well..
I did go the SAS way for the V15 III,but in the end preferred the M75 ED 2..
Wish it had a wee bit more high end though..
Same with the M97Xe..
It did work well with the brush down on my Thorens TP 13 A arm though and wasn't too dull..
I don't use that much either,but put a TD165 motor in it..
I intend to keep the motor spare for my TD160,this one with SME 3009 S2.

I'm not that active because recovering from a heart attack and stents..
My nearest post office is quite a few miles away..
I have to use public transport..
So I would have to motivate myself..
I am getting a bit better now though.

Sorry,you are getting my life story here..Hahahaha..

I have considered Ebay,I would probably get more for them,
but selling them 1 by 1 would be a lot of bother when it came to mailing them...
A lot of Post Office Trips..

JDJX
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by JDJX » 23 Jan 2020 22:07

The question really is, do you want the known, smooth sound of most Shure cartridges or some third party replacement for the M97xE that usually have a peak around the 8k region, etc .

The same peaks that may make cymbals etc sparkle a bit artificially will also make female vocal sound harsh.

Unfortunatel, most replacement stil for the M97xE have some sort of a peak that some like.

Personally, when Shure announced that they were abandoning vinyl, I quickly got 4 Shure stili at the lo installed w price that they were going for before the price gouging. All have been inspected and tested to be great .
Considering that I get about 2 to 2 1/2 years use out each one and had a fairly new one installed at Shure's announcement....
Do the math. :)

IMO, much to much is made of the shure frequency response as a slight adjustment with an EQ can easily fix it to anyone's liking. The roll off is only about 5 db at it's max.
You do no have an EQ? There was a time when no serious audiophile would have a system that did no included an EQ simply because no two home listening environments are linear .
Now they are considered the devil's tool by those who have no idea how to use one..

These same people seem to be oblivious to the fact that any (vinyl) master has already gone through countless switches, wires, signal processors and EQs before it even gets to be a master

You want "pure sound"? Go listen to a live, all acoustical band with no amplification .:)








.

Bob Dillon
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by Bob Dillon » 23 Jan 2020 23:15

LP Gear Vivid Line for the M97xe adds no brightness or peakiness.

mamakasou
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by mamakasou » 23 Jan 2020 23:21

If you've enjoyed your M97xE over the years and want to keep it original then obviously the best thing to do is to hunt for an original stylus in a reasonable price.

However, if you'd like to try a change in tonality (to the brighter) you could go for a good JICO like the ones suggested by the guys.

And of course in case you dont like it, you can always sell the JICO on the auction site pretty easily.

BoringOldFart
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by BoringOldFart » 24 Jan 2020 03:52

Bob Dillon wrote:
23 Jan 2020 23:15
LP Gear Vivid Line for the M97xe adds no brightness or peakiness.
Now that is an option I haven't considered. How does the midrange compare to the OEM stylus.

BoringOldFart
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by BoringOldFart » 24 Jan 2020 03:57

JDJX wrote:
23 Jan 2020 22:07


IMO, much to much is made of the shure frequency response as a slight adjustment with an EQ can easily fix it to anyone's liking. The roll off is only about 5 db at it's max.
You do no have an EQ? There was a time when no serious audiophile would have a system that did no included an EQ simply because no two home listening environments are linear .
Now they are considered the devil's tool by those who have no idea how to use one..

These same people seem to be oblivious to the fact that any (vinyl) master has already gone through countless switches, wires, signal processors and EQs before it even gets to be a master

You want "pure sound"? Go listen to a live, all acoustical band with no amplification .:)








.
I'm a retire band director so I an far from a purest. I have no problem bumping or dropping the EQ at a certain point. "If it sounds good, it IS good" (Duke Ellington)

BoringOldFart
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by BoringOldFart » 24 Jan 2020 04:53

goatbreath wrote:
23 Jan 2020 20:51
I am toying with selling my unused Shure M97Xe Styli again..
I either have 6 or 8 boxed and 2 non boxed..
Will need to have a look..
I have kept them in a cool dark place in an airtight box since I bought them..
The non boxed 2 came with Bodies in the aluminium Boxes..
I have used the supplied bits and bobs,plus the boxes are more bulky..
I have 2 bodies..
I did have 3 but broke one of the mounting lugs..
I'm still on the original stylus..
I don't use the M97Xe much..

I ended up using my M75 ED 2 cartridges..
Until I found out better,I thought all the Styli for the were of Pfanstiehl quality..
ie Awful or I had to order from Japan..
I found te non tie wire Tonar ones to be pretty decent..
I can't really find a good enough Stylus for my V15 III..
The Tonar one for that doesn't track well..
I did go the SAS way for the V15 III,but in the end preferred the M75 ED 2..
Wish it had a wee bit more high end though..
Same with the M97Xe..
It did work well with the brush down on my Thorens TP 13 A arm though and wasn't too dull..
I don't use that much either,but put a TD165 motor in it..
I intend to keep the motor spare for my TD160,this one with SME 3009 S2.

I'm not that active because recovering from a heart attack and stents..
My nearest post office is quite a few miles away..
I have to use public transport..
So I would have to motivate myself..
I am getting a bit better now though.

Sorry,you are getting my life story here..Hahahaha..

I have considered Ebay,I would probably get more for them,
but selling them 1 by 1 would be a lot of bother when it came to mailing them...
A lot of Post Office Trips..
So, are you telling me that you have some New Old Stock n97xE styluses that you might be willing to sell?

goatbreath
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Re: Which stylus for M97xe

Post by goatbreath » 24 Jan 2020 05:22

BoringOldFart wrote:
24 Jan 2020 04:53
goatbreath wrote:
23 Jan 2020 20:51
I am toying with selling my unused Shure M97Xe Styli again..
I either have 6 or 8 boxed and 2 non boxed..
Will need to have a look..
I have kept them in a cool dark place in an airtight box since I bought them..
The non boxed 2 came with Bodies in the aluminium Boxes..
I have used the supplied bits and bobs,plus the boxes are more bulky..
I have 2 bodies..
I did have 3 but broke one of the mounting lugs..
I'm still on the original stylus..
I don't use the M97Xe much..

I ended up using my M75 ED 2 cartridges..
Until I found out better,I thought all the Styli for the were of Pfanstiehl quality..
ie Awful or I had to order from Japan..
I found te non tie wire Tonar ones to be pretty decent..
I can't really find a good enough Stylus for my V15 III..
The Tonar one for that doesn't track well..
I did go the SAS way for the V15 III,but in the end preferred the M75 ED 2..
Wish it had a wee bit more high end though..
Same with the M97Xe..
It did work well with the brush down on my Thorens TP 13 A arm though and wasn't too dull..
I don't use that much either,but put a TD165 motor in it..
I intend to keep the motor spare for my TD160,this one with SME 3009 S2.

I'm not that active because recovering from a heart attack and stents..
My nearest post office is quite a few miles away..
I have to use public transport..
So I would have to motivate myself..
I am getting a bit better now though.

Sorry,you are getting my life story here..Hahahaha..

I have considered Ebay,I would probably get more for them,
but selling them 1 by 1 would be a lot of bother when it came to mailing them...
A lot of Post Office Trips..
So, are you telling me that you have some New Old Stock n97xE styluses that you might be willing to sell?
5.15 AM here in Scotland,but I can't sleep tonight for some reason,so dug them out..

I have 6 boxed and 2 unboxed,unused Shure M97 xe Styli..
Plus a couple of Bodies I still have to dig out..
Ah one is on a headshell,easily rectified..
That one has a used stylus on it,,even that hasn't been used that much,
so they are unlikely to be used..


Anyway,sorry only my phone camera is working..
M97xe 1.jpg
(116.66 KiB) Downloaded 122 times
M97Xe 2.jpg
(140.55 KiB) Downloaded 123 times

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