Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

the thin end of the wedge
thehoj
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Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by thehoj » 10 Dec 2019 01:30

I just picked up this Goldring 2200 cartridge, and didn't notice at first, but it seems like the cantilever is slightly angled. I don't think it's actually bent, rather it seems like it's coming out of the stylus body at a slight angle. Though I'm finding it odd that in some of the photos I've taken it looks quite bad to me, in others it kind of doesn't look that bad.
I've reached out to the retailer that I purchased from, as well as Goldring themselves, but I wanted to see what you guys thought about this.

Here are some pics I took:
First pic is sitting above a record, it is not set down on the record here.
https://i.imgur.com/9CyCCeU.jpg

Here is a picture from the top down where you can see the cantilever coming out at what seems like a slight angle to me:
https://i.imgur.com/RLsND7S.jpg

Here's from the bottom and it seems just slightly to the left here, but it doesn't seem as extreme from this angle:
https://i.imgur.com/ngYqxLy.jpg

Though this picture is a bit blurry, it seems to showcase the angle a bit better:
https://i.imgur.com/7EWl1Ds.jpg

This one looks almost good to me:
https://i.imgur.com/GR7Pdwh.jpg

I can't quite figure this out.. Is this a matter of the suspension system inside settling or something? or what do you guys think about this? I've sent pics to the retailer to see what they say, but it's not sitting great with me for a brand new cartridge.

thehoj
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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by thehoj » 10 Dec 2019 01:54

Here's a little video I took of dropping down to a record as well.. It seems to me like the cartridge body is squatting in the direction opposite to the angle of the cantilever. Something just doesn't seem right to me here.

https://youtu.be/EylFtCRP4dw

rewfew
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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by rewfew » 10 Dec 2019 16:00

I think you've established well that it's out of whack. Hope you can get your money back or a replacement.

1200y3
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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by 1200y3 » 10 Dec 2019 16:12

The still photos show no sign of concern. Normally I wouldn't nitpick about it. But according to the movie the compliance looks very high. How is the tracking force? If the cartridge is good, then you will need an arm of lower mass. And is the anti skating good?

thehoj
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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by thehoj » 10 Dec 2019 16:48

rewfew wrote:
10 Dec 2019 16:00
I think you've established well that it's out of whack. Hope you can get your money back or a replacement.
I contacted Goldring directly and they said that the retailer should replace it for me. They provided me with a ticket # for them to refer to, so hopefully that helps. Unfortunately the retailer is closed Monday and Tuesday so I won't hear anything until tomorrow at the earliest.
1200y3 wrote:
10 Dec 2019 16:12
The still photos show no sign of concern. Normally I wouldn't nitpick about it. But according to the movie the compliance looks very high. How is the tracking force? If the cartridge is good, then you will need an arm of lower mass. And is the anti skating good?
It does seem like it's a very high compliance cartridge from the video.. Here are the specs on the cartridge though
https://www.goldring.co.uk/goldring-220 ... .html#tab2
It lists the dynamic compliance @ 10Hz as 16 mm/N (same as * 10-6cm/Dyne), which from my understanding is more in the mid compliance range.
The tonearm is a factory SL-1200 Mk2 tonearm, which from my understanding is somewhere in the middle as far as effective mass (4.5g tonearm + 7.5g headshell), supposedly 12g total effective mass.
I am using a Nagaoka headshell that weighs 12g though, so my effective weight would be in the 16.5g range I believe.

Using this tool https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_r ... mit=Submit and entering an effective tonearm mass of 16.5g, witih a compliance of 16 * 10-6cm/dyne it shows that I should be able to handle a cartridge as low as 5g in weight, up to 11g. The Goldring weighs 8.6g with mounting screws.

As for vtf, it's set at 1.8g in this video. Within the recommended 1.5 - 2g.

Or am I out to lunch on how I'm understanding these numbers?
It does really seem like that cantilever is moving waaaay too much when I drop it down.

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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by 1200y3 » 11 Dec 2019 05:10

Take advantage of the exchange, then you'll know that much more about the cartridge you will be using for years to come. And let us know how the new one is.

thehoj
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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by thehoj » 11 Dec 2019 17:36

Just heard back from the retailer, they informed me that cartridges are final sale. Somehow I missed that in their about us info.. This is a super piss off. I've contacted Goldring to see what they say. Super unimpressed. I'll refrain from mentioning the retailer at this point, but if this isn't resolved properly I'll mention who they are just so others aren't taken by this poor business practice.

The cartridge is probably fine, even with a slightly off-center cantilever, but it's not acceptable for me. I will likely sell it with full disclosure and pics of the cantilever if someone isn't put off by that, but I'll wait to see how this transpires.

Is this a normal thing for audio shops??

thehoj
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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by thehoj » 11 Dec 2019 18:49

I'm just looking at the cartridge again, and I kind of wonder if I'm just being overly sensitive. I took some more pics again, and it's kind of looking like the cantilever is actually straight on now.. Ugh. Could this have just been something that took some time to settle or something?

https://i.imgur.com/ZznZHiq.jpg

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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by iLikeItBlue » 11 Dec 2019 19:33

That looks perfectly fine to me. I had a cartridge with a cantilever that was much more out of whack than that. It was a gray market buy with no warranty, so, somewhat unhappy about it, I mounted it (being sure to set the alignment by sighting the cantilever and not the cartridge body). This led to two discoveries. First, everything sounded fine right off the bat. Left/right balance was fine, staging and imaging were fine. The second and more interesting thing, though, was that after 30 or 40 hours of break-in, when I double checked and re-set all my set-up perimeters, I found that the cantilever was now perfectly straight. I can only assume that the suspension loosened and limbered, and let the cantilever go where it wanted to be, nicely aligned with the body.
But, like I said, yours looks pretty darn straight to me.

thehoj
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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by thehoj » 11 Dec 2019 19:56

iLikeItBlue wrote:
11 Dec 2019 19:33
That looks perfectly fine to me. I had a cartridge with a cantilever that was much more out of whack than that. It was a gray market buy with no warranty, so, somewhat unhappy about it, I mounted it (being sure to set the alignment by sighting the cantilever and not the cartridge body). This led to two discoveries. First, everything sounded fine right off the bat. Left/right balance was fine, staging and imaging were fine. The second and more interesting thing, though, was that after 30 or 40 hours of break-in, when I double checked and re-set all my set-up perimeters, I found that the cantilever was now perfectly straight. I can only assume that the suspension loosened and limbered, and let the cantilever go where it wanted to be, nicely aligned with the body.
But, like I said, yours looks pretty darn straight to me.
Thanks for the info. This seems to be what I'm reading on a lot of different forums. I'm just super OCD about stuff like this so it's been driving me nuts.

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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by 1200y3 » 12 Dec 2019 06:36

My V15 4 had the exact same "stylus action", but it was designed to track at 3/4 gram (and up). Anti-skating could straighten the stylus. The later beryllium styli were much stiffer.

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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by thehoj » 12 Dec 2019 15:06

1200y3 wrote:
12 Dec 2019 06:36
My V15 4 had the exact same "stylus action", but it was designed to track at 3/4 gram (and up). Anti-skating could straighten the stylus. The later beryllium styli were much stiffer.
I played around with antiskate and lowered it a bit, though I already had it set pretty low, but I also decreased VTF a bit, to the minimum for this cart, and that seems to have fixed up that huge squat it was doing to some extent.

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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by patient_ot » 13 Dec 2019 13:24

At the base of the cantilever there is a rubber/elastomer suspension bushing. Through use, a cantilever can become twisted like that in the bushing due to too much or too little anti-skate. If the cart looked like that out of the box I would ask for a new one. If the retailer didn't cooperate, I would be inclined to call the bank/CC company for a chargeback. I would not have mounted the cartridge, personally.

Now, if you've already decided to keep it the problem *could* work itself out over time from playing records but there is no guarantee.

RE: compliance Goldring doesn't say if that is lateral or vertical. These are high-ish compliance cartridges from all anecdotes I've seen. You can take a resonance measurement of the cart/tonearm/headshell in action to confirm. If your resonance number is below 9hz then I would use a lighter headshell and see if that helps.

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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by BMRR » 13 Dec 2019 14:29

thehoj wrote:
11 Dec 2019 17:36
Just heard back from the retailer, they informed me that cartridges are final sale. Somehow I missed that in their about us info.. This is a super piss off. I've contacted Goldring to see what they say. Super unimpressed. I'll refrain from mentioning the retailer at this point, but if this isn't resolved properly I'll mention who they are just so others aren't taken by this poor business practice.
. . .
Is this a normal thing for audio shops??
It is somewhat normal, if that makes sense. I agree that it is a crappy business practice to refuse a refund or exchange on a defective product, but unfortunately I have encountered this policy at several audio retailers. There are also some retailers who will allow an exchange or refund in theory but they require the customer to pay a restocking fee as high as 30% if, in their judgment, the item is not really defective.

thehoj
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Re: Goldring 2200 cantilever off-center slightly

Post by thehoj » 13 Dec 2019 16:52

Yeah I mean I would even have paid a restocking fee to be quite honest, but they said I'm on my own.. The shop in question is Planetofsound in Canada.. I can say that I most definitely will not be doing business with them in the future.

In any case I have to say Goldring direct support has been amazing. I kept them updated with how things were going, and despite Planetofsound not offering me any support whatsoever, Goldring put me in touch with the vendor who provides stock to Planet sound - American Audio Video. They gave me a direct contact there who I reached out to, and he has said they are issuing me an RA, and will replace it.
Outstanding!

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