Audio-Technica and Signet

the thin end of the wedge
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dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 11 Jan 2020 19:33

Found it on a turntable for sale in Denmark, and the seller was happy to sell it separate. Cost me about the same as a 2M Red, well worth it as I see it :). Haven't had a chance to evaluate stylus yet, but beryllium cantilevers are becoming rare, so retipping is worth it :). Next project I will compare AM20 vs Am40 with both LC and ML styli. They are in principle identical, yet not quite...

Sunwire
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by Sunwire » 11 Jan 2020 23:40

What's the difference between AM20 and AM40 bodies?
The spec sheet says they have the same resistance and inductance. The AM10 is lower inductance, surprisingly, while all the others appear to be identical.

dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 12 Jan 2020 00:53

Well, I don't know if there is any other actual difference than the specs on channel balance/separation. Those can be just by selection of the best from a big batch. One could speculate that the AM40 has been adapted to the FR profile of LC, but that's speculation and what I'd like to investigate :). I have no technical know-how of how this could be done, I'm sorry to say. Also I'd like to see if I can hear those differences. Not sure it's possible. But I'll enjoy trying :).
AM20spec.JPG
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AM40 spec.JPG
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2002afan
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by 2002afan » 12 Jan 2020 01:13

dagfinn wrote:
12 Jan 2020 00:53
Well, I don't know if there is any other actual difference than the specs on channel balance/separation. Those can be just by selection of the best from a big batch. One could speculate that the AM40 has been adapted to the FR profile of LC, but that's speculation and what I'd like to investigate :). I have no technical know-how of how this could be done, I'm sorry to say. Also I'd like to see if I can hear those differences. Not sure it's possible. But I'll enjoy trying :).
AM20spec.JPGAM40 spec.JPG
Dagfinn, Enjoy. We are sure you will. :P
This AT/Signet thread definitely has made my pockets lighter. :lol:
Cheers,
WillO

dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 12 Jan 2020 16:48

Thanks WillO :). I think Bobby warned me at an early stage "this will be costly!", and he was right :roll: :lol: .
Listening to the AM40s with original stylus, and I happend to look at the frequency spectrum of the music.
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This is from Uroy Dread in a Babylon, The Great psalms. It seems the SAM40 insert is able to pick up high frequencies still. Pretty extreme in the ultrasonics... This is shibata/LC, and I wonder: how does the shibata/LC sound change with wear?

dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 17 Jan 2020 14:00

Of course, the ultrasonic spectrum may just as well be distortion. I will have it examined, and it will live on in one form or another. Beryllium is forever. (I hope).

A topic I've been pondering, and that some of us has been debating, is cantilevers, materials and shapes. Because they - in my ears - affect the nature of the sound. Even the different vintages of aluminum sound different, while the diamond cuts have developed little. A shibata is still a shibata, large or small. I'll take some pictures, but the gear is still in a compilation process, so quality is not quite there yet. See them as excercises :).
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The 1970 VM35 cantilever, my own filthy one. It may be interesting to know that they also made the "First in the world tapered pipe" AT-1007 tonearm, as a companion to the VM35 https://www.vinylengine.com/library/aud ... 1007.shtml
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TK7Ea_VMN40ML_close.jpg
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AT's latest Microline is also aluminum, but not quite the same. Closer pic will come. In between many exotic cantilevers has been made, and disappeared. Beryllium, boron, ruby... with and without goldplating.... =P~

billshurv
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by billshurv » 17 Jan 2020 14:13

That VM35 is a beautful cantilever. Similar to the original on my Rohmann. I might have to get one of those for myself.

dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 17 Jan 2020 19:42

It is absolutely amazing how well it plays :). It has a little more hiss than later versions, my only complaint. (Maybe that's where Zephyr Trace comes in - a gentle breeze ;)). Otherwise it slides right in with 100-series generators. The recommended load is 50kohm, not sure how different it would sound from my current 47k? Electronics is not my stong side :oops: .

Amazingly there was a shibata made for this cart as well, the VM35-FD in gold. And proper stylus designation is for mine is VM35-EL, .3x.7 elliptical.
at-vm35.JPG
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In fact the VM35F is an interesting generator with its lower inductance, looking at these specs. And with shibata on this cantilever... My printed spec page, differs from these specs, oddly. Better repost. Must have done a revision? Both sources ar AT.
vm35spc.JPG
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Eric Burdon & WAR Tobacco Road rocks.

billshurv
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by billshurv » 17 Jan 2020 20:59

50k vs 47k is the fart of a mosquito difference.

dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 17 Jan 2020 21:52

I won't worry about that, then :). Shooting styli sitting on the tt is tricky, the fingerlift gets in the way. And the plastic rail of the very cheap bellows bends and vibrates - don't get one. Almost pointless. I have ordered a proper one*.
VMN40ML_UC.jpg
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Here's the VMN40ML closer, but not what I have in mind.

*Made 1970 8)

2002afan
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by 2002afan » 18 Jan 2020 01:04

dagfinn wrote:
17 Jan 2020 21:52
I won't worry about that, then :). Shooting styli sitting on the tt is tricky, the fingerlift gets in the way. And the plastic rail of the very cheap bellows bends and vibrates - don't get one. Almost pointless. I have ordered a proper one*.
VMN40ML_UC.jpg
Here's the VMN40ML closer, but not what I have in mind.

*Made 1970 8)
Dagfinn, Excellent work as always. :) The VM35 is amazing. 8) To think I passed on one a little while back. :oops: The frequency response of the vintage AT carts were (are) unreal. Brightness? :lol: I'm loving my new Shibata and linear contact friends. :D The DENONS have been collecting dust like my pockets. :roll: That's says it all. =D>
Cheers,
WillO

farispaul
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by farispaul » 18 Jan 2020 01:53

dagfinn wrote:
12 Jan 2020 16:48
Thanks WillO :). I think Bobby warned me at an early stage "this will be costly!", and he was right :roll: :lol: .
Listening to the AM40s with original stylus, and I happend to look at the frequency spectrum of the music.
Uroy_SAM40_AM40.JPG
This is from Uroy Dread in a Babylon, The Great psalms. It seems the SAM40 insert is able to pick up high frequencies still. Pretty extreme in the ultrasonics... This is shibata/LC, and I wonder: how does the shibata/LC sound change with wear?
I like your taste in music. The first lip I played my new Rohmann was Jacob Miller; then Sly and Robbie: great on Altec a7 :D

jdjohn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by jdjohn » 18 Jan 2020 04:04

The VM35 stylus will fit on an AT13EX. Sounds really good, but probably not quite as good as the ATS13 stylus and its .2x.7 nudie.

farispaul
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by farispaul » 18 Jan 2020 07:06

Some of my NOS AT Signet collection
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farispaul
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by farispaul » 18 Jan 2020 07:09

Repackagers
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do get the specs wrong sometimes....
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