Audio-Technica and Signet

the thin end of the wedge
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dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 18 Oct 2019 10:41

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica ... Swx-lb8-UA :shock:
Not going there... :lol: . They look compatible, but I'll just watch from a distance ;).

billshurv
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by billshurv » 18 Oct 2019 10:48

Like the TK10ML to be admired from a distance.

balky
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by balky » 18 Oct 2019 12:18

dagfinn wrote:
18 Oct 2019 10:41
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica ... Swx-lb8-UA :shock:
Not going there... :lol: . They look compatible, but I'll just watch from a distance ;).
Must be a joke... :D

And it is really not funny... :D

dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 18 Oct 2019 12:42

I'm ignorant about this one, but it looks like ML on gold plated beryllium, but at too high price :(.

I'm listening to Graham Nash Songs for beginners, an album bought by my mother back in 1970-something, played countless times on Garrard with Pickering and Stantons, and then by me with Dl-110, 10x2 and DL-103.
Yet the 152LP manages to find some pretty good vinyl, and avoid so much of the noise I remember... amazing.
GrahamNash.jpg
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Spent some time with these lyrics :).

dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 18 Oct 2019 13:00

I feel the theory that the shibata, LC and ML diamonds scrapes dust particles off the vinyl due to their shape actually seems to have merit. For me, in combination with carbon brush and dry vacuum, many lost cases has become a lot better by playing them and cleaning a few times. Which I've doing, when comparing these styli and carts.

2002afan
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by 2002afan » 18 Oct 2019 14:12

chiz wrote:
18 Oct 2019 09:18
2002afan wrote:
18 Oct 2019 02:56
Puts DENON's site to shame. :lol:
I don't know, I think the Denon Museum compares pretty well:
https://www.denon.jp/jp/museum/index.html
And from a DENON fan to boot. :roll: Yes, I have a translated copy. [-X I must have of got caught up in the AT frenzy. :P :wink:
The company beginnings is simply amazing. :)
Cheer,
WillO

2002afan
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by 2002afan » 18 Oct 2019 14:42

dagfinn wrote:
18 Oct 2019 10:41
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica ... Swx-lb8-UA :shock:
Not going there... :lol: . They look compatible, but I'll just watch from a distance ;).
That's a thing of beauty. =P~
Cheers,
WillO

chiz
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by chiz » 18 Oct 2019 19:27

dagfinn wrote:
18 Oct 2019 12:42
I'm ignorant about this one, but it looks like ML on gold plated beryllium, but at too high price :(.
It’s a CVD boron tube I believe which should equate to very low effective tip mass.

dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 18 Oct 2019 22:11

And there it is :). Audio Technica AT22, courtesy of billshurv.
AT22_Tonar.jpg
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Nothing I have plays like this. Listening to Tom Waitz Foreign Affairs, soundstage and rendition of individual instruments is fantastic, and presence and liveness is staggering.
AT22_Tonar2.jpg
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AT22_S2320024.jpg
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It really brings musicians and instruments into the room in a fantastic way.
I guess the only problem would be that other carts become less interesting, and I'd want to play this one, and only this.
AT22_DSC8443.jpg
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Listening to Milt Jacksons Sunflower, featuring people like Billy Cobham and Freddie Hubbard, there are differences in how the different styli emphasize different aspects of music. Stylus on currently is the elliptical, I believe, and focus is less on Billy Cobham, and more on Freddie Hubbard and Milt Jackson. A shibata/LC or ML would change that, I believe. Listening through DT770 pro headset everything is smooth, detailed and imaging is much better than with my speakers. It finds space for orchestra, vibes, drums and horns with ease and gentleness, there is no strain going on. It brings out the gentle frases of Hubbard, the soft vibratos... tonal dynamics, gentle attack differences. As well as bring the dynamic highs out fully and without losing separation. Playing Jennifer Warnes choir track, A singer must die, from Famous blue raincoat is just divine.

On the negative it touches a little more of the worn vinyl, but less than I feared.

Using Electrocompaniet ECP-1 phono stage, total pf load is 142. Inductance is 85mh, which gives 45,8kHz RF on the Hagerman calculator http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html. So ideal resistance load would be 24.5kohm, according to the calculator. Which I can't do. I suppose higher pf load might affect the high end and give a different impression. Will try Pro-ject phono box tomorrow, where pf can be added. Now I must just enjoy some more :D.

billshurv
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by billshurv » 18 Oct 2019 23:00

I wouldn't increase the capacitance, what you have is good. To drop the loading you need another 47k resistor in parallel with the input.

I'll dig out the other inserts over the weekend.

2002afan
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by 2002afan » 19 Oct 2019 02:13

dagfinn wrote:
18 Oct 2019 22:11
And there it is :). Audio Technica AT22, courtesy of billshurv.
AT22_Tonar.jpg
Nothing I have plays like this. Listening to Tom Waitz Foreign Affairs, soundstage and rendition of individual instruments is fantastic, and presence and liveness is staggering.
AT22_Tonar2.jpg
AT22_S2320024.jpg
It really brings musicians and instruments into the room in a fantastic way.
I guess the only problem would be that other carts become less interesting, and I'd want to play this one, and only this.
AT22_DSC8443.jpg
Listening to Milt Jacksons Sunflower, featuring people like Billy Cobham and Freddie Hubbard, there are differences in how the different styli emphasize different aspects of music. Stylus on currently is the elliptical, I believe, and focus is less on Billy Cobham, and more on Freddie Hubbard and Milt Jackson. A shibata/LC or ML would change that, I believe. Listening through DT770 pro headset everything is smooth, detailed and imaging is much better than with my speakers. It finds space for orchestra, vibes, drums and horns with ease and gentleness, there is no strain going on. It brings out the gentle frases of Hubbard, the soft vibratos... tonal dynamics, gentle attack differences. As well as bring the dynamic highs out fully and without losing separation. Playing Jennifer Warnes choir track, A singer must die, from Famous blue raincoat is just divine.

On the negative it touches a little more of the worn vinyl, but less than I feared.

Using Electrocompaniet ECP-1 phono stage, total pf load is 142. Inductance is 85mh, which gives 45,8kHz RF on the Hagerman calculator http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html. So ideal resistance load would be 24.5kohm, according to the calculator. Which I can't do. I suppose higher pf load might affect the high end and give a different impression. Will try Pro-ject phono box tomorrow, where pf can be added. Now I must just enjoy some more :D.
dagfinn, I'm sure it does sound nice with a real subtle look. :) Excellent review. 8) Bill, What a guy. =D>
Cheers,
WillO

dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 19 Oct 2019 14:50

I'm glad it made sense, thank you, WillO :). I have to add that it's low end is also deep and full, with lots of dynamics. Standup acoustic bass is challenging in many ways, but the AT22 has more to give than my speakers can reproduce.
AM20S_150MLX.jpg
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While the memory of the AT22 is fresh, I'm currently playing the same albums with AM20 and and AT150MLx. Again courtesy of billshurv 8) .
AM20S_150MLX_2.jpg
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It is interesting to note that the 150MLx has a reputation of beeing "bright", which is hard to agree with in this configuration. It has surprisingly less pronounced high end, with not more than what I would expect from a ML in difference from the elliptical of the AT22. But I'm happy to say that the AM20s with 150Mlx or 155LC is a very good combination, and perhaps with Mlx as the very finest choice. Access to the top shelf is a luxury :D.
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120Ea, VM-500, with 150MLx ready to align. The VM500 is 0,2g heavier than the 120Ea, a tiny bit more plastic on top.

2002afan
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by 2002afan » 19 Oct 2019 15:38

dagfinn wrote:
19 Oct 2019 14:50
I'm glad it made sense, thank you, WillO :). I have to add that it's low end is also deep and full, with lots of dynamics. Standup acoustic bass is challenging in many ways, but the AT22 has more to give than my speakers can reproduce.

AM20S_150MLX.jpg
While the memory of the AT22 is fresh, I'm currently playing the same albums with AM20 and and AT150MLx. Again courtesy of billshurv 8) .

AM20S_150MLX_2.jpg
It is interesting to note that the 150MLx has a reputation of beeing "bright", which is hard to agree with in this configuration. It has surprisingly less pronounced high end, with not more than what I would expect from a ML in difference from the elliptical of the AT22. But I'm happy to say that the AM20s with 150Mlx or 155LC is a very good combination, and perhaps with Mlx as the very finest choice. Access to the top shelf is a luxury :D.

AT120Ea_VM-500_AT150MLx_DSC8464.jpg
120Ea, VM-500, with 150MLx ready to align. The VM500 is 0,2g heavier than the 120Ea, a tiny bit more plastic on top.
Lovely jewelry with diamond insets. :P =P~ [-X #-o =D> What a hook-up. 8)
Cheers,
WillO

billshurv
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by billshurv » 19 Oct 2019 18:10

Hopefully now my dilemma is more clear. I should have stopped when I got the 150. But I couldn’t resist the allure of thg older generation. Now I don't know what to do. Happy problem in a lot of ways.

dagfinn
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Re: Audio-Technica and Signet

Post by dagfinn » 20 Oct 2019 12:36

Hehe, I do understand better now, Bill :D. To be honest, I'm holding back on the AT22. I don't want to fall in love with it too much, and rather save that for later... Like Stephen Stills says "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with..." :lol:

Playing Bruce Cockburns Further adventures of... on AM20s/150Mlx, is just earcandy. Love the arrangements and instrumentation. Bruce likes his guitars crisp and clean, as do I. Wonderful stuff, outside genres I would say. Instrumental tracks with acoustic guitar and standup bass, drumskins and tickly percussions.

My perhaps "best" recording is Charlie Byrds Direct to disk 45rpm, from 1977, and side two is the one I turn to the most. It is of course live in a studio room and is mostly produced to sound like that. It allows studies of many acoustic instruments, which always is the benchmark for fidelity for me. It's a candyshop of sound and music, with that extra nerve of the "concert" format of direct to disc. The are mistakes here, no overdubs or corrections. And quite challenging passages, which the MLx cruises through.
AM20s_150MLx_DSC8504.jpg
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The AM20s is a clear candidate for a permanent residency of a 150Mlx :D.

So how do you guys do it, do you assign one month to each stylus, or do you go by genre or what? I'm now up to four turntables here, with some different mass arms :roll: . 7,5, 10, 12,5 and one with a dynamic range on the medium/heavy side.

My plan up is to match up some carts and styli combinations with arms, and have a channel for each so I can easily switch... :roll:

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