Golden era MMs in the 21st century

the thin end of the wedge
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billshurv
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by billshurv » 09 Oct 2019 23:03

I should note Jico used to make a boron SAS for the shure SC35!

In terms of 'why special': the boron pipe cantilever puts it in rarefied company in the ultra low effective mass club along with the Shure V15V and the Panasonic 100 and 205 mk3 and mk4. This was only put on top cartridges so it is likely to have something going for it. I can't download the manual from home due to some block on the IP range my ISP uses so will have to look in the morning. Current prices are a smidge over my self imposed max limit for a punt but I will remain intrigued and tempted.

wolfie62
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by wolfie62 » 10 Oct 2019 01:26

Just checked the manual for the XL50. So, what’s the difference between a Hyper Elliptical Stylus (Shure) and the Sony Super Elliptical? Boron is much cheaper than beryllium. The manual shows a very nice flat FR up to 20 kHz, where it rises from resonance. But, it looks ruler flat where it counts!

BMRR
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by BMRR » 10 Oct 2019 02:19

Sunwire wrote:
09 Oct 2019 20:48
Did Sony manufacture their own cartridges, or was manufacturing outsourced to another company?
I have never heard a Sony cartridge and know nothing about them.
billshurv wrote:
09 Oct 2019 21:12
For MC I know Sony did both. For MM not sure.
I believe most of their MM cartridges were outsourced to other manufacturers. Quite a few of them were made by Audio-Technica. For example, the Sony VL-30G, VL-32G, and VL-34G were based on the Audio-Technica AT10 Series and had a customized outer shell that was styled to match Sony turntables of the time. The Sony VL-5 was based on the AT3710. The Sony VL-37G was an AT771 integrated into a custom Sony headshell. The Sony VL-33G and VL-36G were rebadged AT70s. The Sony VL-43G used an AT generator in a unique custom housing.

Likewise, the Sony VC-41G — an MC cart with user-replaceable styli — was based on the Audio-Technica AT-3100 Series.

At least one of their MM carts was a rebadged Excel ES-70 and I suspect one or more of their MM carts were rebadged Excel QD700s.

Some of their MM carts were made also by Chuo Denshi but I don't know exactly which ones.

2002afan
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by 2002afan » 10 Oct 2019 02:51

wolfie62 wrote:
10 Oct 2019 01:26
Just checked the manual for the XL50. So, what’s the difference between a Hyper Elliptical Stylus (Shure) and the Sony Super Elliptical? Boron is much cheaper than beryllium. The manual shows a very nice flat FR up to 20 kHz, where it rises from resonance. But, it looks ruler flat where it counts!
Hyper, Super, probably of the same type. Boron is much safer though. :) I will let you know how it sounds in about two weeks. Sold to the "sound addict". :P You guys are killing me. [-X Thanks Delta667. :wink:
Cheers,
WillO

wolfie62
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by wolfie62 » 10 Oct 2019 05:24

I expect a full report on my desk within a week of its arrival! No excuses!😁

Somehow I expect it will sound very good....

Delta667
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by Delta667 » 10 Oct 2019 05:54

wolfie62 wrote:
09 Oct 2019 21:54
What makes the Sony XL50 different or unique? Asking honestly.
The unusual arrangement of the connectors (cross) and the hole for the cantilever in the center of the cartridge body tells us about the unusual (at least non-standard) design of the XL-50/70 cartridges.
Also, the end of the tube in which the cantilever is located is closed with lead. This design dampens unnecessary vibrations well.
Sony probably made an attempt to search for the natural sound of MM.
By this time, they have already created their unrivaled masterpiece XL-55 and they knew what to strive for.

billshurv
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by billshurv » 10 Oct 2019 09:00

wolfie62 wrote:
10 Oct 2019 01:26
Boron is much cheaper than beryllium. The manual shows a very nice flat FR up to 20 kHz, where it rises from resonance. But, it looks ruler flat where it counts!
With these thinwall tubes I expect fabrication cost far far outweighed material cost, esp when they got into CVD for manufacturing. There is one argument for Boron being the best material for cantilevers but there is no consensus. Shure held a number of patents on Be tube manufacturing so it could just be that.

@WillO. You are a brave man, let us know how it goes. Maybe in a year or two when I am bored of the (mumble) MMs I have at my disposal.

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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by dagfinn » 10 Oct 2019 14:35

Just in the door, even my daughter of 4 thought it was "a smell treasure" :). Audio Technica Signet Analog Master AM20s. How do this compare to the MR 5.0 E, I wonder?
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Broken stylus, but I have replacement that I think will be good.
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With ATN152LP :D.

billshurv
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by billshurv » 10 Oct 2019 14:41

Keep the broken one. You never know when it might be useful...

2002afan
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by 2002afan » 10 Oct 2019 18:57

wolfie62 wrote:
10 Oct 2019 05:24
I expect a full report on my desk within a week of its arrival! No excuses!😁

Somehow I expect it will sound very good....
Will do, it is on the way.
Cheers,
WillO

2002afan
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by 2002afan » 10 Oct 2019 19:12

billshurv wrote:
10 Oct 2019 09:00
wolfie62 wrote:
10 Oct 2019 01:26
Boron is much cheaper than beryllium. The manual shows a very nice flat FR up to 20 kHz, where it rises from resonance. But, it looks ruler flat where it counts!
With these thinwall tubes I expect fabrication cost far far outweighed material cost, esp when they got into CVD for manufacturing. There is one argument for Boron being the best material for cantilevers but there is no consensus. Shure held a number of patents on Be tube manufacturing so it could just be that.

@WillO. You are a brave man, let us know how it goes. Maybe in a year or two when I am bored of the (mumble) MMs I have at my disposal.
Bill, You bored? :lol: I don't think that will ever happen. [-X You have too many nice exotic carts for that. =D>
Brave, no not me. :wink: :^o Addicted maybe. :oops: I have bought a couple excellent DENON MC carts and some nice vintage head shells from the seller. He always tells me if any problems, returns are welcome. :) If it sounds too good, I may have to add a sapphire JICO SAS. [-o<
Cheers,
WillO

2002afan
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by 2002afan » 10 Oct 2019 19:20

dagfinn wrote:
10 Oct 2019 14:35
Just in the door, even my daughter of 4 thought it was "a smell treasure" :). Audio Technica Signet Analog Master AM20s. How do this compare to the MR 5.0 E, I wonder?
Signet_AM20S.jpg
Signet_AM20S_4.jpg
Broken stylus, but I have replacement that I think will be good.
Signet_AM20S_5.jpg
Signet_AM20S_3.jpg
Signet_AM20S_2.jpg
With ATN152LP :D.
Nice. =D> The ATN152LP/Signet body makes some very sweet music. The closest MM cartridge sound wise to a MC cart that I have for now. :D
Cheers,
WillO

wolfie62
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by wolfie62 » 10 Oct 2019 21:45

Some nice trials going on in here! While I’m not (yet) an AT aficionado, I’m still interested in what you folks experience with these! I have to say, I’m amazed that we still have cart manufacturers that were able to stay in business during the down years of analog audio playback.

wolfie62
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by wolfie62 » 10 Oct 2019 21:53

Yes, it’s an addiction. I’m a full fledged member of PCA, Phono Carts Anonymous.

Yes, it’s way past time to clean up and properly store my carts and styli!
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billshurv
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by billshurv » 10 Oct 2019 22:14

2002afan wrote:
10 Oct 2019 19:12

Bill, You bored? :lol: I don't think that will ever happen. [-X You have too many nice exotic carts for that. =D>
Brave, no not me. :wink: :^o Addicted maybe. :oops:
I do pretty much have a lifetimes supply already so may take a while :). It's hard when you discover new treasures you have never heard of before though.

@Dagfinn. Looks good. Very much pre 120 series looks Which I rather like.

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