Golden era MMs in the 21st century

the thin end of the wedge
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wolfie62
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by wolfie62 » 06 Oct 2019 02:45

I really like the ADC sound. I rotated an XLM in this morning, followed by my Shure V15 Type IV.

But a collectors item I have is the 1981 NAD 9200. It was a hybrid of the ADC ZLM made specifically for NAD turntables, by ADC. Not many survived. The NAD 9300 (TOTL) and 9200 shared the same bodies; different styli.

Not long ago I watched a seller post for sale a stash of NOS NAD styli. I put it on my watch list. Then I bought one, a 9300 Stylus. It was as advertised, NOS. Then, I cleaned him out of his remaining stock. The seller said I was the only one who showed interest. Nude elliptical styli on the 9300, diasa bonded on the 9200, and bonded on the 9100.

The 9200 was the cart on my first turntable. I kept the cart, but not the turntable.

An original cart, in original box with all paperwork, and 5 NOS styli. (3 9300, 1 each 9200 and 9100 styli.)
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katana1100
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by katana1100 » 06 Oct 2019 18:24

I got a ps-x600 biotracer last year with a mint signet 5kea cart and that thing is stunning. I also have a head shell with a Denon dl160 that I can swap in and the signet is still better.
I think the ultimate ‘70’s sleeper cart was the radio shack rxt4. It was a repackaged new era 97 elliptical. It was better than the 97xe that was discontinued because it was built better- had telescopic shank, better diamond , better qc.
Up to about five years ago, you could buy a new one for around $75 which incredibly, was less than what some were paying for a 97xe!
I love the old pioneer carts ( pln9 and pc35).
I picked up generic styli for around $12 each, but over the years found new in sealed box oem ( I have about 15 for each cart) so I’m set until my ears fall off.
I think the current best deal in that vintage of mm cart is to buy a staton 881s or Pickering xvs3000 with a worn or busted oem styli ( it must be oem!!) then send it out for a retip.
Total cost be around $200.

katana1100
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by katana1100 » 06 Oct 2019 18:25

I got a ps-x600 biotracer last year with a mint signet 5kea cart and that thing is stunning. I also have a head shell with a Denon dl160 that I can swap in and the signet is still better.
I think the ultimate ‘70’s sleeper cart was the radio shack rxt4. It was a repackaged new era 97 elliptical. It was better than the 97xe that was discontinued because it was built better- had telescopic shank, better diamond , better qc.
Up to about five years ago, you could buy a new one for around $75 which incredibly, was less than what some were paying for a 97xe!
I love the old pioneer carts ( pln9 and pc35).
I picked up generic styli for around $12 each, but over the years found new in sealed box oem ( I have about 15 for each cart) so I’m set until my ears fall off.
I think the current best deal in that vintage of mm cart is to buy a staton 881s or Pickering xvs3000 with a worn or busted oem styli ( it must be oem!!) then send it out for a retip.
Total cost be around $200.
These carts are like puppies- everyone loves them!

wolfie62
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by wolfie62 » 06 Oct 2019 19:19

Googling the NAD cartridge above, many have asked questions about it. Even Turntable Needles asks if anyone has specifications on the line. Apparently I’m one of very few people left who has the original booklet for them, listing specs for each cartridge. I’m amazed by all the misinformation I’ve read on VE, AK, and half a dozen other audio sites. Most have gotten it wrong as to exactly what the ADC equivalents are.

wolfie62
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by wolfie62 » 06 Oct 2019 19:37

RS RXT4: I have 3 of them. +1 for it being a real gem of a sleeper cart! It’s what the M97xE could be, if it had laminated pole pieces. The Era IV M97 from 1979 (same as the RXT4 body!) is a very nice MM cart, embodying the very best of Shure from the sub V15 Type IV and Type V carts.
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Sunwire
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by Sunwire » 06 Oct 2019 21:27

wolfie62 wrote:
06 Oct 2019 19:19
Apparently I’m one of very few people left who has the original booklet for them, listing specs for each cartridge. I’m amazed by all the misinformation I’ve read on VE, AK, and half a dozen other audio sites. Most have gotten it wrong as to exactly what the ADC equivalents are.
Can you upload the specs to the VE Database and a scan of the booklet to the Library?

2002afan
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by 2002afan » 07 Oct 2019 00:26

wolfie62 wrote:
06 Oct 2019 02:45
I really like the ADC sound. I rotated an XLM in this morning, followed by my Shure V15 Type IV.

But a collectors item I have is the 1981 NAD 9200. It was a hybrid of the ADC ZLM made specifically for NAD turntables, by ADC. Not many survived. The NAD 9300 (TOTL) and 9200 shared the same bodies; different styli.

Not long ago I watched a seller post for sale a stash of NOS NAD styli. I put it on my watch list. Then I bought one, a 9300 Stylus. It was as advertised, NOS. Then, I cleaned him out of his remaining stock. The seller said I was the only one who showed interest. Nude elliptical styli on the 9300, diasa bonded on the 9200, and bonded on the 9100.

The 9200 was the cart on my first turntable. I kept the cart, but not the turntable.

An original cart, in original box with all paperwork, and 5 NOS styli. (3 9300, 1 each 9200 and 9100 styli.)

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Wolfie62, I have one of those 9300 stylus from that guy too. 8) I run it on my ADC XLM cartridge. Good to know that it has a nudie. :shock: My best Golden era MM carts are a signet TK3Ea with a ATN 152 LC stylus (thanks Sunwire =D>) followed closely by a Ortofon M20 FL super with a cap 210 installed. :D
Cheers,
WillO

wolfie62
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by wolfie62 » 07 Oct 2019 01:34

Then you made a wise choice!

I was skeptical that they were truly NOS for $65! Then after I received one of the 9300 styli, I realized the seller was truthful. I asked what his remaining stock was, offered him a price, and he sold the rest to me for a great price. He was surprised they were moving so slowly.

But yes, it’s a nude elliptical, genuine ADC as used on the XLM carts, omnipivot design.

wolfie62
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by wolfie62 » 07 Oct 2019 01:47

Sunwire wrote:
06 Oct 2019 21:27
wolfie62 wrote:
06 Oct 2019 19:19
Apparently I’m one of very few people left who has the original booklet for them, listing specs for each cartridge. I’m amazed by all the misinformation I’ve read on VE, AK, and half a dozen other audio sites. Most have gotten it wrong as to exactly what the ADC equivalents are.
Can you upload the specs to the VE Database and a scan of the booklet to the Library?
I’m hesitant to do that just yet.

Not in here, but in another group I got bad-mouthed for saying I had the cart and all paperwork. Basically I was called a liar, because no one supposedly had it. I was clowned by many in AK.

TTN doesn’t have a copy either. If they offer me a free stylus, I may provide a copy.

In the meantime, I’m going to make comparison measurements of the Integras, XLM, ZLM, Astrion. Just to see if it agrees with published data for resistance and inductance.

One of the bits of misinformation is the 9100. It is a different body than the 9200 and 9300.

2002afan
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by 2002afan » 07 Oct 2019 02:57

jdjohn wrote:
03 Oct 2019 21:48
I don't think we've yet mentioned the link between the AT120 family and the Signet TK_Ea family. They have the same body style, and can use styluses interchangeably. The TK3Ea and up have an all-metal body (TK1Ea has a plastic top), so you can get a nice value with a TK3Ea or 5Ea. In the AT family you have to go up to the 150 to get an all-metal body...well, I think the 120Ea is all-metal, but more rare and expensive.

Then there's the TK_E (no 'a') family. Stylii for these are much harder to find, and the numbering between cartridge and stylus is not as intuitive. For example, check this out:
SignetTK5&7.jpg
The TK5E cartridge takes a replacement stylus of TKN-1. The TK7E takes a TKN-2, etc. The fact is: the TK3E/5E/7E can all use the same styluses between them, with the TKN-22 probably being the most common. I was lucky enough a while back to obtain a TKN-3 nude Shibata and TKN-1 nude .2X.7 elliptical which will mount on my TK3E and 5E cartridges :D

And then there are the Signet 'special' styluses [but they are QUITE rare]:
SignetSpecial.jpg
My first real cartridge was a Signet TK1Ea. :) Signet was right in my backyard as a kid growing up in Akron Ohio. #-o My brother-in-law who is a few years older told me that they used to have a sale each year at their Fairlawn office. :cry: I do remember that Signet Logo on the building. :roll:
Cheers,
WillO

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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by billshurv » 07 Oct 2019 12:39

Possibly my 'highest risk' cartridge from late 70s is the Denon DL-109. Risky because stylii are hard to come by and very little known about them. I could only find a couple of threads on the internet talking about them* and the person who bigged them up the most was the person I bought the cartridge off! But it has the most intriguing and complex generator design I have seen so I had to have one for tests. Like the Panasonic/technics of that era has a titanium pipe cantilever, so hope this means Expert can retip it. I note the DL-108 of which there is even less information does have a Jico sas option so that is on my 'maybe' list.

*For example read the two reviews on here for it https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_r ... odel=DL109

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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by BMRR » 07 Oct 2019 15:28

wolfie62 wrote:
06 Oct 2019 19:19
Googling the NAD cartridge above, many have asked questions about it. Even Turntable Needles asks if anyone has specifications on the line. Apparently I’m one of very few people left who has the original booklet for them, listing specs for each cartridge. I’m amazed by all the misinformation I’ve read on VE, AK, and half a dozen other audio sites. Most have gotten it wrong as to exactly what the ADC equivalents are.
You could help stop the misinformation by scanning your booklet and uploading it to the VE library.

totem
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by totem » 07 Oct 2019 17:55

You could help stop the misinformation by scanning your booklet and uploading it to the VE library.
Which would be a benifet to the VE members, that said it appears the poster is looking for a little
extra from a vendor.

BMRR
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by BMRR » 07 Oct 2019 18:58

Then he should not be "amazed" by misinformation out there when he (and perhaps he alone) has the ability to rectify that and chooses not to. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

wolfie62
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Re: Golden era MMs in the 21st century

Post by wolfie62 » 07 Oct 2019 23:06

I’m amazed no one else seems to have the information.

And before you start bad-mouthing me, there is a back story on this. No one likes being called a liar in this or any other group, especially if you go to extra lengths to explain what you know, based on mfr data. This was in the Long Empire cartridge thread on AK. The tie-in from Empire to ADC was the MI technology.

I mentioned I had data on the NAD carts, had the cartridge, then was told I was a liar. I was called names. I was clowned by 6 members who are self-proclaimed experts. They told other members to ignore me, that I had no experience and was a liar. Then one member said he wanted the data to prove I wasn’t a liar. Then admins stepped in and blocked several members from that thread. Then I got PMs from a member who called me a liar saying not to bother, he got the info elsewhere, and said he would not apologize. Then I got PMs from this same member, using a different account, wanting that information on NAD carts.

So now, I hold on to that info until I’m ready to share it.

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