Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

the thin end of the wedge
georgesgiralt
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Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by georgesgiralt » 08 Sep 2019 18:34

Hello,
This morning I bought a second hand record from Westminster label. It contains recordings done in France of the Antonio Vivaldi Gloria Mass and Marc Antoine Charpentier Midnight mass from the "Ensemble Vocal de Paris and The Orchetra of the Société des Concerts" conducted by André Jouve.
On the sleeve, there is a line saying : © 1954, Westminster Recording Co., Inc., N.Y. For best results use a Diamond Point Stylus with .001 radius. Turnover 500 cycles. (Orig L.P.) Treble Roll-Off : 16 dB at 10,000 cycles Printed in USA License Ducretet Thomson

The record miss a lot of high but bass is very present. I bet the equalization is not RIAA compliant.
Question what could/should I do to listen to this record enjoying all it's qualities ?
Many thanks in advance for your help

P.S. : Ducretet Thomson is a French company historically related to the American Thomson company.

Bob Dillon
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by Bob Dillon » 08 Sep 2019 19:30

If you have tone controls, turn the treble up a bit and the bass down if that's what you seek. That EQ looks pretty close to RIAA to me. I wouldn't usually expect a 65 year old recording to have real extended highs anyhow. Like 12 khz at the most probably.

pivot
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by pivot » 08 Sep 2019 21:03

Early microgroove mono cut for 1 mil conical stylus. RIAA eq curve was not standard until 1958 and even then there was variance. You are going to have to fuss with tone controls, if you have them, to approximate the right curve.

Collux
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by Collux » 08 Sep 2019 22:22

The suggestion above by pivot is by far, the easiest way to go.

If you wish to go down the 'equalisation curve' pathway, it can all get fairly involved & expensive.
- probably only worth pursuing if one has a library of many such older recordings.

Here is good background on the issues involved:
https://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/mixphono.htm

Graham Slee (scroll down: select Archival Multi-EQ)
https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/phono-preamps/

The Puffin
http://parksaudiollc.com/
(the manual page 8 - gives equalisation options)

An inexpensive DIY project with equalisation options
https://www.altronics.com.au/p/k5513-pr ... tform-kit/

georgesgiralt
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by georgesgiralt » 09 Sep 2019 06:58

Thank you very much for your answer !
I was thinking that giving the curve applied to the record was an indication of a before RIAA curve.
As it is the only record I own of that era (even if I own some old ones) I'll try to play with tone control to hear all I can get of this record.
Have a bright nice day !

pivot
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by pivot » 09 Sep 2019 15:51

The four band equalizer Schiit Loki Mini is more flexible than the usual tone controls. I got one to fuss about with and find it interesting. The bypass switch lets you compare your changes with "flat". Has minimal sonic negatives - at least in my system with my ears. Not a bad toy for $150. Might be of use.

https://www.schiit.com/products/loki

KentT
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by KentT » 09 Sep 2019 17:13

Yes, this old Westminster LP was made before the company adopted the RIAA curve. Play with your tone controls. Use the lead in grooves to set the tone right by ear is how I play pre RIAA records.

smee4
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by smee4 » 10 Sep 2019 06:26

Old Westminster records can actually sound very good. Sometimes a 1 mil conical stylus will help, but sometimes other shapes can help avoid previous groove damage. I have a special mono phono preamp I built with switchable EQ, but as said above, you can get nearly there with tone control tweaking.

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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by AudioFeline » 11 Sep 2019 11:19

Collux wrote:
08 Sep 2019 22:22
...If you wish to go down the 'equalisation curve' pathway,...

An inexpensive DIY project with equalisation options
https://www.altronics.com.au/p/k5513-pr ... tform-kit/
Another relatively inexpensive DIY project with equalisation options is Rod Elliot's highly-regarded ESP06 phono (PCB available for purchase), with the multi-eq modification (second link, no PCB)
https://sound-au.com/project06.htm
https://sound-au.com/project91.htm

He also has kits for a suitable power supply, and a kit to add a rumble filter if desired.

Collux
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by Collux » 11 Sep 2019 12:24

The Westminster record here I understand, is an early LP.
- Rod Elliot's Project 91 is for the older 78 rpm based applications.

Nevertheless, it is rather interesting for those with such a requirement.

Boltman92124
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by Boltman92124 » 11 Sep 2019 20:58

pivot wrote:
09 Sep 2019 15:51
The four band equalizer Schiit Loki Mini is more flexible than the usual tone controls. I got one to fuss about with and find it interesting. The bypass switch lets you compare your changes with "flat". Has minimal sonic negatives - at least in my system with my ears. Not a bad toy for $150. Might be of use.

https://www.schiit.com/products/loki
I'm interested in the Loki. Did you place it between your phono section and your pre-amp? Or is it between your pre-amp and power amp?

Collux
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by Collux » 11 Sep 2019 23:02

Boltman92124 wrote:
11 Sep 2019 20:58
Did you place it between your phono section and your pre-amp? Or is it between your pre-amp and power amp?
According to the manual, it can be used in either location.
https://www.schiit.com/public/upload/PD ... 1_1(1).pdf

pivot
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by pivot » 12 Sep 2019 02:54

Between "preamp" and power amp in my case. The ideal might be in tape monitor loop if you preamp has that. It works at "line level" so could go between phonopre and preamp.

georgesgiralt
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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by georgesgiralt » 12 Sep 2019 07:38

Hello
Yesterday, I put the Westminster record on the table and put some treble on the amp.
Waouh ! For a 1954 record, this is awesome !
It is very good on side A then you put side B and stay stunned in your armchair. The musicality is wonderful and the singers are awesome !
I'll check to see if I can find more of this brand !
Thanks for the help.

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Re: Old Westminster Record circa 1954.

Post by smee4 » 12 Sep 2019 07:58

georgesgiralt wrote:
12 Sep 2019 07:38
Hello
Yesterday, I put the Westminster record on the table and put some treble on the amp.
Waouh ! For a 1954 record, this is awesome !
It is very good on side A then you put side B and stay stunned in your armchair. The musicality is wonderful and the singers are awesome !
I'll check to see if I can find more of this brand !
Thanks for the help.
Yes, they are nice. Coincidentally I played one from 1955 today. You even forget they are mono, as you enjoy the sound.

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