ADC Brick,Goldring G800,Nagaoka MP I have wondered..

the thin end of the wedge
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goatbreath
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ADC Brick,Goldring G800,Nagaoka MP I have wondered..

Post by goatbreath » 11 Aug 2019 00:02

When you outwardly look at these designs,they look very similar,
Placement of magnet on my MP110 etc..
The ADC and Nagaoka MP's even are both very rectangular,,not that that means they are the same inside.

I know magnet technology has came forwards,but how different/similar are these designs..

Is the Nagaoka MP a souped up ADC brick basically..??
I have never owned a brick,so don't have experience of how they sound and I know different magnets sound different from experience with guitar pickups..
ADC did have a reputation for being a bit smooth on top like the Nagaoka though.. :D


Also on a seperate matter..
I have observed Goldring have a history of outsourcing..
Did they make the 800 series themselves..?
I know the 900 and 1000 range have things on common..
Were these made by Goldring in the UK..?
Also I have only owned a G820 from the 800 era,I seem to remember it wasn't brash..
I had a 1012 GX ,but never thought about it's heritage at that point...


I know the ADC Bricks and Goldring 800 series were induced magnets..
I think the 900 and 1000 series were normal MM's,or were they..
Some Moving Irons get labelled as Moving Magnets..
Are Induced Magnet Designs and Moving Irons very similar..?
Moving Permalloy,Moving Iron..Both Metals,that erm move..lol
Am I being dumb here..? :lol:


I surmise the Nagaoka rectangular Cartridges are basically induced magnet cartridges with a fancy name and more modern magnets..Samarium Cobalt or something alike.Or were they too early for that..??
I of course may be totally wrong here...

I am curious and need educating.... :D

BMRR
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Re: ADC Brick,Goldring G800,Nagaoka MP I have wondered..

Post by BMRR » 11 Aug 2019 15:15

goatbreath wrote:
11 Aug 2019 00:02
Is the Nagaoka MP a souped up ADC brick basically..??
I've wondered the same thing for years. :)
goatbreath wrote:
11 Aug 2019 00:02
Are Induced Magnet Designs and Moving Irons very similar..?
I've always considered Induced Magnet as a variation on the basic Moving Iron principle. The biggest practical difference between IM and MI is that IM has the magnet in the stylus housing — so you get a new magnet every time you replace the stylus — whereas MI has the magnet inside the cartridge body which means you're always using the same magnet for as long as the cartridge body lasts.

goatbreath
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Re: ADC Brick,Goldring G800,Nagaoka MP I have wondered..

Post by goatbreath » 12 Aug 2019 03:46

Some Answers on the Goldring questions..
It seem both the 800 and 900 cartridges were definitely made in house...

NOYB
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Re: ADC Brick,Goldring G800,Nagaoka MP I have wondered..

Post by NOYB » 12 Aug 2019 11:07

BMRR wrote:
11 Aug 2019 15:15
The biggest practical difference between IM and MI is that IM has the magnet in the stylus housing — so you get a new magnet every time you replace the stylus — whereas MI has the magnet inside the cartridge body which means you're always using the same magnet for as long as the cartridge body lasts.
Any thoughts on pros/cons?
Greater consistency when replacing the stylus?

nat
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Re: ADC Brick,Goldring G800,Nagaoka MP I have wondered..

Post by nat » 14 Aug 2019 01:18

In theory, you can have a lighter moving system with an induced magnet, because the moving magnet needed to induce a certain current in the coils will have greater mass than the ferrous part that is magnetized by the powerful massive fixed magnet in the induced magnet system. This became less pressing an issue with the development of neodymium and scandium magnets, but I believe the central claim is still true.
There are only so many ways to skin a cat - all induced magnet cartridges are going to be rather similar in design (though you can have more or less magnets doing the induction, and in different locations, and all moving magnets are going to be rather similar, though you can locate the magnet or magnets in different locations/orientations to the coils. So I think your basic point is correct.

wolfie62
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Re: ADC Brick,Goldring G800,Nagaoka MP I have wondered..

Post by wolfie62 » 14 Aug 2019 02:03

BMRR wrote:
11 Aug 2019 15:15
goatbreath wrote:
11 Aug 2019 00:02
Is the Nagaoka MP a souped up ADC brick basically..??
I've wondered the same thing for years. :)
goatbreath wrote:
11 Aug 2019 00:02
Are Induced Magnet Designs and Moving Irons very similar..?
I've always considered Induced Magnet as a variation on the basic Moving Iron principle. The biggest practical difference between IM and MI is that IM has the magnet in the stylus housing — so you get a new magnet every time you replace the stylus — whereas MI has the magnet inside the cartridge body which means you're always using the same magnet for as long as the cartridge body lasts.
Never thought about it like that, i.e., internal magnets (internal to the cart body) versus external magnets, and MI vs IM.

Another thing, external magnets can be larger, less costly. Not much room inside the cart bodies, whether Stanton\Pickering, Empire, Nagatron, Acutex, or Nagaoka.

Good point, BMRR!

AsOriginallyRecorded
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Re: ADC Brick,Goldring G800,Nagaoka MP I have wondered..

Post by AsOriginallyRecorded » 14 Aug 2019 04:01

Interesting topic, since I have two IM cartridges that I find to be very pleasant to listen to. One is an old MC-7 cartridge of unknown exact origin (could be CEC or Coral, who use the same designation), on my original introduction to vinyl Sears Professional Series (parentage also uncertain). The other is a very special and nice sounding ADC PSX40, currently on a Technics SL-Q200. Both cartridges/turntables play "well above their class", and produce a full, involving, and quite accurate rendition of the music being played. Other reviewers have in the past commented that some IM cartridges actually are very close to equaling MC cartridges, without the finicky setup and relative fragile and expensive replacement problems. Now, to step back and avoid the trampling of others seeking IM cartridges to test. :D :lol:

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