Found one of these on vacation

the thin end of the wedge
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Boltman92124
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Found one of these on vacation

Post by Boltman92124 » 22 Jul 2019 16:12

BSR Ceramic? What's up with the reversible stylus? Tossed it into my cart box. Worth fooling around with or toss it? It was mounted on an old/trashed SL-1800.
https://shop.mantra-audio.co.uk/acatalo ... A1272.html

billshurv
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by billshurv » 22 Jul 2019 16:14

You never see a combined LP/78 stylus before?

Boltman92124
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by Boltman92124 » 22 Jul 2019 16:16

billshurv wrote:
22 Jul 2019 16:14
You never see a combined LP/78 stylus before?
I figured as much. Are there any others still being sold like this today?

billshurv
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by billshurv » 22 Jul 2019 16:17

That I don't know, I just remember them on the old garrard changer my parents had

JDJX
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by JDJX » 22 Jul 2019 18:08

Boltman92124 wrote:
22 Jul 2019 16:16
billshurv wrote:
22 Jul 2019 16:14
You never see a combined LP/78 stylus before?
I figured as much. Are there any others still being sold like this today?


I do not know for sure but I would imaging that they are still available.

Those types if styli are definitely still available though...
https://needlefinder.net/by-picture/nee ... ification/

Bob Dillon
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by Bob Dillon » 22 Jul 2019 19:28

billshurv wrote:
22 Jul 2019 16:17
That I don't know, I just remember them on the old garrard changer my parents had
I had a flip over 33-45/78 cart on my old Garrard TT too, and my Magnavox portable, and... I remember those carts used to be as common as dirt, and I'm only 40-something. Maybe to someone under 40 they are oddities. I haven't seen anyone selling new versions of the carts anymore, but styli are available. Some of the styli may be for microgroove (not 78) use only on both sides though.

62vauxhall
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by 62vauxhall » 22 Jul 2019 23:41

I had to make do with the Dual CDS-630 cartridge that my brand new 1015 left the factory with. I was dying for a magnetic but my tube receiver would not accept one.

I was 18 then and only ever had experience with flip around needles or flip around cartridges.

Fortunately, that Dual cartridge sounded really good. Much nicer for a ceramic than I was expecting.

A bonus was that both needles we're LP not one side for LP and one side for 78. I don't think I ever suspected either tip of not being a diamond but I suppose they could have been sapphire.

Never used that cartridge in nearly 50 years but still have it. And another besides which I've no recollection of acquiring.

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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by AudioFeline » 14 Aug 2019 04:35

I think the ceramic carts have different outputs to a modern mm/mc. Some claim that the better ceramic carts can sound quite good. I would think that any with the flip-over styli are not worth the trouble and are best tossed (unless they suit a period restoration).

vanakaru
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by vanakaru » 14 Aug 2019 06:45

There is a very informative tread here:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 19&t=82160
Ceramics can sound really sweet specially with old tube radios. This BSR SC5M is on of these. I think you can get the flip stylus with LP DIAMONDS on both sides. Sapphire tip is often on these too. While it has special character to the sound it lasts only less than 100h of play.
With very simple adapter(of resistor and capacitor) it can be used into MM RIAA amp.

AudioFeline
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by AudioFeline » 14 Aug 2019 08:08

A wirelessworld article on ceramic cart's eq and a circuit for a ceramic cart pre-amp:
http://www.keith-snook.info/wireless-wo ... sation.pdf
vanakaru wrote:
14 Aug 2019 06:45
With very simple adapter(of resistor and capacitor) it can be used into MM RIAA amp.
A quick google suggests that ceramic carts may also be OK (maybe not perfect) for a normal line-input.

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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by vanakaru » 14 Aug 2019 23:02

AudioFeline wrote:
14 Aug 2019 08:08
A quick google suggests that ceramic carts may also be OK (maybe not perfect) for a normal line-input.
Ceramic is good for tube input thats impedance is around 1MOhm. You can hear sound with Line IN but it is rather terrible. I like it with adapter to MM Phono with RIAA the best.

AudioFeline
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by AudioFeline » 15 Aug 2019 01:39

vanakaru wrote:
14 Aug 2019 23:02
AudioFeline wrote:
14 Aug 2019 08:08
A quick google suggests that ceramic carts may also be OK (maybe not perfect) for a normal line-input.
Ceramic is good for tube input thats impedance is around 1MOhm. You can hear sound with Line IN but it is rather terrible. I like it with adapter to MM Phono with RIAA the best.
Of course! The RIAA eq is still required!
At least the adapters appear to be relatively cheap and easy to DIY.

Coffee Phil
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by Coffee Phil » 15 Aug 2019 02:11

Hi AudioFeline,

RIAA EQ is constant amplitude from 50 Hz to 500 Hz, then constant velocity from 500 Hz to 2120 Hz at which point it returns to constant amplitude up to beyond what we can hear.

A properly loaded (>1 megohm) ceramic cartridge is amplitude responding, so it will give somewhat acceptable results just that way. There will be a 12 dB error at the high frequencies relative to the low frequencies but it isn’t as bad as you might think. That is what is done in cheap all in one phonographs.

Of coarse if you have an RIAA mm input the ceramic will sound better with the simple adapter into it.
Here is such an adapter:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 299/medium


Phil
AudioFeline wrote:
15 Aug 2019 01:39
vanakaru wrote:
14 Aug 2019 23:02
AudioFeline wrote:
14 Aug 2019 08:08
A quick google suggests that ceramic carts may also be OK (maybe not perfect) for a normal line-input.
Ceramic is good for tube input thats impedance is around 1MOhm. You can hear sound with Line IN but it is rather terrible. I like it with adapter to MM Phono with RIAA the best.
Of course! The RIAA eq is still required!
At least the adapters appear to be relatively cheap and easy to DIY.

vanakaru
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by vanakaru » 15 Aug 2019 06:58

Here is another topic where you see the Sonotone network I use
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 9&t=109319

Coffee Phil
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Re: Found one of these on vacation

Post by Coffee Phil » 15 Aug 2019 23:42

Hi Bob,

Maybe not actual new, but you can get NOS.

https://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog ... ategories=

Phil

Bob Dillon wrote:
22 Jul 2019 19:28
billshurv wrote:
22 Jul 2019 16:17
That I don't know, I just remember them on the old garrard changer my parents had
I had a flip over 33-45/78 cart on my old Garrard TT too, and my Magnavox portable, and... I remember those carts used to be as common as dirt, and I'm only 40-something. Maybe to someone under 40 they are oddities. I haven't seen anyone selling new versions of the carts anymore, but styli are available. Some of the styli may be for microgroove (not 78) use only on both sides though.

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