Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

the thin end of the wedge
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dagfinn
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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by dagfinn » 16 Jan 2020 10:46

ray_parkhurst wrote:
16 Jan 2020 02:36
I hope this helps...Ray
It sure does, I am very grateful :). I love the results of your #5 method, where contact patches appear dark. ELWD, BD plan and Mplan were new terms for me, and knowing the difference is very useful. I will study the SEI-thread closer.

And thanks to DeepEnd for sharing his efforts too! I look forward to see more images :).

Regards,
Dagfinn

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by DeepEnd » 16 Jan 2020 18:04

So tried again with a different stylus, smaller steps, cable release plus increased delay between shutter press and picture slightly improved but still more to go (yet to IS off and lower ISO setting to see if it improves further).
2020-01-16 16-49-58 (B,Radius8,Smoothing4).jpg
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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by DeepEnd » 16 Jan 2020 19:51

Slightly oblique and with a bit of the cantilever in no IS and sensor native ISO - bit of "bloom" from the lights.
2020-01-16 SPX10O.jpg
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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by jdjohn » 16 Jan 2020 23:23

Halo effect! Looking good =D>

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by scrapjack+ » 18 Jan 2020 18:11

I went with a $5 lens reverser and the 18-55mm kit lens I already had. Lighting partially translucent objects can be difficult. Thanks for the advice.

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by ray_parkhurst » 18 Jan 2020 18:51

I don't think a reversed 18-55 is going to give you high enough magnification for this work.

The Nikon MPlan 10 is typically around $100. Here's one for $87, which is a good deal:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-M-Plan-1 ... SwDYZdnh9O

Here's an example of the BD Plan 20 ELWD that I use. Note that you'll need to figure out how to do coaxial lighting, so I don't recommend this objective for the faint hearted:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-BD-Plan- ... 2841602970

The BD Plan ELWD seems more common than the MPlan 20 ELWD, but the Mplan is an alternative if you don't plan to use coaxial lighting.

If you want to go as high ast 40x, none of the objectives have enough working distance, so the BD Plan is the only practical alternative.

Note that I did have some reasonable results from the Bausch & Lomb 25x Industrial objective, but the quality was not quite as good as the Nikons. Working distance was good so lighting was not too difficult, even implementing a ringlight. Here's an example of this objective in case you want to try. Note that I did publish some images taken with it so you can see them in the old thread:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BAUSCH-LOMB-MI ... Sw5ipc~sCv

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by Sunwire » 18 Jan 2020 20:16

Fascinating thread.
I'm following with interest.
I'm an experienced photographer with a Nikon D750 and selection of lenses.
I have a couple of lab quality optical microscope, each with three objectives.
Waiting to see and learn more from you guys before investing in any more hardware and trying some experiments.

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by dagfinn » 18 Jan 2020 20:32

Finding and understanding microscope objectives are pretty complex. I have two in mind: this https://www.ebay.com/itm/303109123045, "Nikon Microscope Objective CF Plan 20x/0.35 EPI SLWD RMS Thread WD 20.5" and this https://www.ebay.com/itm/303107028309 "Nikon Microscope Objective CF Plan 10x EPI SLWD RMS Thread WD 20.3".

Are they good choices, or is there something that escapes me, Ray?
50mmVMN40_2.jpg
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50mm w/bellows. VMN40ML.

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by ray_parkhurst » 18 Jan 2020 22:35

Both of those 20x SLWD's are infinity types, meaning they are meant to be used with an infinity-focused "tube lens" rather than with extension/bellows. I would assume the tube lens length is 200mm. So instead of mounting these onto bellows, you will mount a 200mm lens to the camera (focused at infinity), and mount these on the front of the lens with a special adapter. Many folks have 200mm prime lenses already, so will just need the adapter to make these work. A typical lens for this would be the Nikon 200mm f4 AIS, which has 52mm front filter threads. An adapter to mount these objectives looks like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-8-X-36tpi- ... xyoA1RXCbG

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by dagfinn » 18 Jan 2020 23:48

Ah, ok, thanks again. Amazing. I am deeply grateful for your help. I think I'll go the bellows way instead, and look for one like you linked. The rest I think I have covered :).

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by scrapjack+ » 21 Jan 2020 03:25

ray_parkhurst wrote:
18 Jan 2020 18:51
I don't think a reversed 18-55 is going to give you high enough magnification for this work.
I have owned at lest 3 macro lenses, but I rarely used them for that, I prefer other subjects.

Actually I found it to be quite good, however the torus shaped focal plane you get reversing a lens, and the fact that an electronic lens doesn't let you change the aperture when it isn't connected introduced some difficulty. I intended to do focus stacking, but never got around to it. I didn't want to buy a microscope. The wider the lens the more magnification you get when it is reversed. I photographed a few cartridges for school work but haven't returned. Can't seem to find those photos. I have a hard time seeing the focus that well on my new camera. I tried taking a few more, but I have a different camera now, different sensor size. It doesn't like film accessories, and i's firmware seems much less friendly to them than the last, probably to "encourage" us to replace our working gear with new gear.

Anyway I thought I posted pictures on the close ups thread, but I guess not. I kinda rushed a few new photos by eye, I didn't break out my monitor. I forgot what a pain it is to focus on something that small. I think it was only slightly easier with Canons dedicated micro lens, the one fixed to a rail. Looking through, I should have taken more time, these aren't focused as well, or the way, that I'd like. That said, I think they are close enough to show the magnification. The slightest twitch of the finger when adjusting these may as well be a mile, so If you can't take your time I don't recommend this. You may have been right about not quite enough magnification.

Here are a few photos that were the better of the rush job for comparison.
Photos on a full frame cannon, with 18-55mm wide open, reversed with one of those cheap extender sets, the $6 piece af pass through 65mm total, eBay special.

Bampa BP2ATC needles (Crosly flip upgrade)
IMG_7961 cropped.jpg
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D5100m AL-11 on a Stanton 500 2 that came with a table. This one was especially hard to focus on, also not translucent at all, looks like metal in camera. I think this demonstrates, in topic, the problem with a torus shaped focal plane well.
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This came on a brunswick reproducer for diamond disks. I think it's shot. I know, not microgroove, but still fairly small.
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Lastly a 78 phonograph ten for a penny needle, presumably used as it came on reproducer.
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How do you like the billows? Can you adjust them by a thread for millimeter scale adjustments? Are they convenient for micro adjustments, or like lens reversers are they also only a next best thing to a good microscope? Formerly having access to a studio it seemed like I got to try nearly everything, even those lousy thread on magnifying glasses, but no billows, only rails.

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by ray_parkhurst » 21 Jan 2020 03:39

At these magnifications, bellows are really only good for providing a rigid support for the camera and lens, with variable extension for setting the magnification. It's possible to adjust focus by moving the camera on the bellows. That method is a lot less sensitive than moving the lens. Best is still to use a rail of some kind, or a micrometer stage.

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by scrapjack+ » 21 Jan 2020 03:52

micrometer x-y-z table was what I kept wishing I had, that and a camera that could fire the flash in live view.

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by dagfinn » 21 Jan 2020 10:59

NIkon PB-4.jpg
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I have high hopes for this :). My current attemtps with the cheapest bellows is educational, at least.
test_setup.jpg
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Two 10W LED spots (Ikea plant lights) allow for f22@1/50s. I have one more, but I will rig it for a more proper location when the bellows arrive. Fortunately I'm on concrete with laminate, quite stable floor for tripod. Remote release with 3 sec exposure delay...
TK9Lca_85mm.jpg
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Signet TKN9LCa, tapered beryllium cantilever with shibata/LC.

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Re: Stylus images on the not cheap (but not massively expensive)

Post by blekenbleu » 21 Jan 2020 19:06

Rather than resubmit, my stylus image and imaging lash-up here:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 5#p1026458

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