Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

the thin end of the wedge
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goatbreath
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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by goatbreath » 04 Jun 2019 13:15

I use both a microline and a point 6 conical and don't find this to be the case..The microline reveals nasties the conical misses.The information coming out of them is different...I like others on this thread had been kind of warned off conicals,buy at least an elliptical etc..So I was shocked at what it could do..Plus I find although more percussively detailed I find some more advanced tips,not all,can lack Timbre..The actual tonal colour that defines instruments..I find conicals better at that..A Microline can sound great,but so can a conical in different situations..To the point I have a separate turntable set up for each..I'm not saying that my explanations why it happens is correct..It is very obvious when happening though..

Vinyl is a very imperfect medium,,I bet some of those records with stereo grooves post pre distortion curves etc,,still sounded better with a conical..I have records pressed with rough patches from the stamper..One I have two copies of from different batches..Deepest purple on both a green and a black Harvest label..It has these rough spots in the exact same places on the record the surface noise almost identical on both,although I think a bit worse on the black label.....I have never found a non noisy original of The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage by Peter Hammill..

My theory is that the Conical doesn't reproduce the faults that the more advanced tip does.Let's call it the law of too much information.Not all records are perfect,how much do you want this to be apparent..I would rather listen to music than damaged vinyl..

I do have some records that just sound like a pile of distorted grain with a more advanced tip,yet there is zero problem with a conical tip..I want to listen to music,not grain...So either the conical touches it in a different place because it is a point 6 conical,,or it misses the info where the elliptical or more advanced tip than that touches in the first place..Maybe both..What is obvious is that it is happening..I'm very glad I found this as it gives those records new life..So a conical point six cartridge for me is a blessing.

I have 3 back up AT VM95 ML microline styli coming today by courier,I am going to put in an air sealed tub and put in a cool dark place.I like that cartridge.I think the AT VM 95 ML sounds glorious,it seems to still have bold tonal colour that many more advanced tips lack..I still realise how good or bad it is at revealing nasties though....I have some AT91 styli and Repro Shure M75 B styli stashed too...

billshurv
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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by billshurv » 04 Jun 2019 14:31

I've given up having damping and compliance discussions here and do that on other forums...

Roberto C2H3
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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by Roberto C2H3 » 04 Jun 2019 14:35

wart wrote:
04 Jun 2019 12:48
Maybe the day will come then not only stylus shape will be discussed.
I'll believe it when I see it.
:lol: The day we stop discussing stylus shapes will be the day the vinyl records have stopped spinning :lol:

wart
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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by wart » 04 Jun 2019 14:58

Iffy in cars forum only one matter is the topmost important - tires size and type :D
Let's keep spinning :D

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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by Johnny_Utah » 05 Jun 2019 16:57

Is the AT-VM95C a significant step up from the conicals in the AT range below it, or should I look at the $100 options for a nice sounding conical that’s in production (and has cheap-ish styli)?

The AT5V is on my radar, but double the cost of the 95.

Boltman92124
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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by Boltman92124 » 05 Jun 2019 21:14

Johnny_Utah wrote:
05 Jun 2019 16:57
Is the AT-VM95C a significant step up from the conicals in the AT range below it, or should I look at the $100 options for a nice sounding conical that’s in production (and has cheap-ish styli)?

The AT5V is on my radar, but double the cost of the 95.
I'd definitely check out the 95c. I have the older version with the "ce" stylus from LP Gear (.5x.6 conical) and it is my favorite 95 series cart. And the cheapest!

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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by cafe latte » 05 Jun 2019 22:25

Johnny_Utah wrote:
05 Jun 2019 16:57
Is the AT-VM95C a significant step up from the conicals in the AT range below it, or should I look at the $100 options for a nice sounding conical that’s in production (and has cheap-ish styli)?

The AT5V is on my radar, but double the cost of the 95.
Not sure I can agree that the ATvm95c is a significant step up from the AT conicals below it. I have among lots of other carts a vm95c, a vm95ml and some at3600l's and an elliptical carbon cantilever lp gear stylus for the at3600l too. I prefer the at3600l to the atvm95c and with the elliptical fine detail improves but not in a night and day way. I also have an at91 again with carbon cantilever, tracking is a little lighter than the at3600l, but sonically similar. Interesting in this carbon cantilever mix I also have a at95 with lp gear carbon fidelity se stylus which sounds scary good even comparing to the higher vm range with quite exotic tips.
Chris

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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by Boltman92124 » 05 Jun 2019 22:47

cafe latte wrote:
05 Jun 2019 22:25
Johnny_Utah wrote:
05 Jun 2019 16:57
Is the AT-VM95C a significant step up from the conicals in the AT range below it, or should I look at the $100 options for a nice sounding conical that’s in production (and has cheap-ish styli)?

The AT5V is on my radar, but double the cost of the 95.
Not sure I can agree that the ATvm95c is a significant step up from the AT conicals below it. I have among lots of other carts a vm95c, a vm95ml and some at3600l's and an elliptical carbon cantilever lp gear stylus for the at3600l too. I prefer the at3600l to the atvm95c and with the elliptical fine detail improves but not in a night and day way. I also have an at91 again with carbon cantilever, tracking is a little lighter than the at3600l, but sonically similar. Interesting in this carbon cantilever mix I also have a at95 with lp gear carbon fidelity se stylus which sounds scary good even comparing to the higher vm range with quite exotic tips.
Chris
I agree that the 3600 with the LP Gear elliptical is preferred to the 95c. Although I have the 95ce, which is aluminum. The thing I like about the 95ce is the fat sound. It has alot more beef than the stock 95e. Plus is it dead quiet on the LP like good conicals tend to be. At any rate, for $35 for the vm95c, it probably is nice to have around..and collect more stylus' like you have!

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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by KentT » 07 Jun 2019 13:24

AudioFeline wrote:
30 May 2019 02:50
AT 3600L - it's good quality, has a conical styli, and so cheap if the styli gets worn/damaged a replacement cart is cheaper than any replacement styli will cost (including for this cart!).

And as noted again, if it's a mono disk then use the mono button on your amp - it will reduce the noise, and any residual noise will be centred in the soundstage (and therefore not as distracting as coming out of two different speakers with mono music).
This one fits the bill, cheap, and scary good. Sounds very nice, tracks very well. I track mine all day at 2.5 grams, I like it better than the Audio-Technica AT-VM 95C.

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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by cafe latte » 08 Jun 2019 02:17

KentT wrote:
07 Jun 2019 13:24
AudioFeline wrote:
30 May 2019 02:50
AT 3600L - it's good quality, has a conical styli, and so cheap if the styli gets worn/damaged a replacement cart is cheaper than any replacement styli will cost (including for this cart!).

And as noted again, if it's a mono disk then use the mono button on your amp - it will reduce the noise, and any residual noise will be centred in the soundstage (and therefore not as distracting as coming out of two different speakers with mono music).
This one fits the bill, cheap, and scary good. Sounds very nice, tracks very well. I track mine all day at 2.5 grams, I like it better than the Audio-Technica AT-VM 95C.
+1

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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by goatbreath » 08 Jun 2019 09:27

I own both the AT91 and the AT VM 95 C,I find the AT91 to be better on both sound quality and tracking tests on the HIFI News Record..I track the AT91 at 2.3 grams and the AT VM 95 C at 2.16..

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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by johnnywalker » 08 Jun 2019 12:22

I have received my AT3600l, mounted and aligned it, and listened to it, and I must respectfully disagree. While it is very competent, I do not find it superior to the AT-VM95C. It is better at suppressing surface noise, but its sound quality is, to my ear, not as good. The VM has better high frequency response, and better detail. "Different strokes for different folks," as Sly said.

cafe latte
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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by cafe latte » 08 Jun 2019 23:59

johnnywalker wrote:
08 Jun 2019 12:22
I have received my AT3600l, mounted and aligned it, and listened to it, and I must respectfully disagree. While it is very competent, I do not find it superior to the AT-VM95C. It is better at suppressing surface noise, but its sound quality is, to my ear, not as good. The VM has better high frequency response, and better detail. "Different strokes for different folks," as Sly said.
This has to be a compliance issue IMO. Dad got a AT3600l on my recommendation, which I listened to in the UK on my visit, it did not sound that good. He also bought an elliptical carbon from LP gear and that did improve it on his set up. On my Lenco which quite a heavy arm the at3600l sounds amazing tracking at 2.5g-3g way better than the AT95vmc on any of my turntables. The at3600l sounds good on my Technics but it sound better with the elliptical on that turntable, I have concluded that this must be a compliance thig I am hearing, the AT95vmc is a better compliance match for medium compliance arms, but all things right the at3600l sounds better IMO.
Chris

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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by johnnywalker » 09 Jun 2019 00:26

This has to be a compliance issue IMO. Dad got a AT3600l on my recommendation, which I listened to in the UK on my visit, it did not sound that good. He also bought an elliptical carbon from LP gear and that did improve it on his set up. On my Lenco which quite a heavy arm the at3600l sounds amazing tracking at 2.5g-3g way better than the AT95vmc on any of my turntables. The at3600l sounds good on my Technics but it sound better with the elliptical on that turntable, I have concluded that this must be a compliance thig I am hearing, the AT95vmc is a better compliance match for medium compliance arms, but all things right the at3600l sounds better IMO.
Chris
You might be right, but I have it mounted on a 15 gram headshell, and on my SL-1200 I play it with the 10 gram auxilliary weight, which turns my 12-gram effective mass tonearm into something much heavier. Similarly, I play my DL-103 and DL-103R carts on 12-gram headshells with the auxilliary weight, with great results.

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Re: Favorite cartridge for "beater" records?

Post by vinylrayk » 09 Jun 2019 21:08

billshurv wrote:
30 May 2019 14:47
Are there actually two questions here

1. What is the 'disposable' cartridge for first play of a charity shop find
2. What are prefences for cartridges for dealing with worn/noisy records?
My 'disposable' cartridge (stylus, actually) for charity shop finds is a Stanton 500AL with OEM 0.7 mil conical stylus tracking at 3.5g on a Dual 1019 dedicated for the purpose. I play the record straight, after a visual inspection and a dust brush wipe, and have occasionally back-cued through a grit pop to clear the groove. Haven't lost a stylus yet, but I have a good stock of replacements.

Worn/noisy records go to the worn/noisy record shelf. I don't spend time agonizing over finding the optimum cartridge/stylus for minimizing the noise - life is too short for that.

Ray K

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