New cart ?

the thin end of the wedge
T.O.S.
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New cart ?

Post by T.O.S. » 18 May 2019 20:11

Hello again , it 's some time I've been absent on the forum .More than that , from various reasons , the music gear in my home was rather silent ...Even if I listened music on the headphones and the Yammy soundbar sourced from the net.
I want to give a new start to my system and remember that my main cartridge is too old and needs to retire (Benz Micro MC20E2H high output MC ) My turntables are Technics SL-1500 manual ( dormant for the last two years) and SL-D3 ( the main TT ,on wich is the Benz mounted on)
The Phonostage is Leema Elements Phono https://www.audiot.co.uk/products/leema ... -5638.aspx

I am looking for a cart to cost no more than 250-270 Euros ( in EU prices ,being located in Romania ) .Wouldn't hurt to cost less :D
What could you recommend for the Technics tonearms in this price ?
Of course ,It should not sound worse than the replaced cartridge

T.O.S.
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Re: New cart ?

Post by T.O.S. » 18 May 2019 21:59

Maybe some Nagaoka 110 ? I'd go MM this time ...

lini
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Re: New cart ?

Post by lini » 19 May 2019 08:09

Teo (welcome back, btw...): The MP110 is just an entry-level MI, so how about an AT-VM95ML instead? That's a nice, still pretty new AT-MM with nude MicroLine tip - and it's only ca. 150 Euro, so that you could grab one for either your SL-DL3 or your SL-1500, and if you like it, you could grab another for the other Technics without significantly exceeding your budget.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

T.O.S.
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Re: New cart ?

Post by T.O.S. » 19 May 2019 09:51

lini wrote:
19 May 2019 08:09
Teo (welcome back, btw...): The MP110 is just an entry-level MI, so how about an AT-VM95ML instead? That's a nice, still pretty new AT-MM with nude MicroLine tip - and it's only ca. 150 Euro, so that you could grab one for either your SL-DL3 or your SL-1500, and if you like it, you could grab another for the other Technics without significantly exceeding your budget.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Thank you for the idea , I' ll give an eye on the AT products.Nice to have again advices from you !

T.O.S.
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Re: New cart ?

Post by T.O.S. » 19 May 2019 10:44

I can get locally the VM95ML with 178 E and the VM540ML with 225 E
The 45 E difference isn't too big .But is there quality (sound) difference between them ?

T.O.S.
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Re: New cart ?

Post by T.O.S. » 19 May 2019 17:25

My system is somehow neutral, so I hope it won't emphasise the top end.
The alternatives I can get locally in these money are the Denon DL110, Grado Gold/Silver, and thay's it.
The Benz Silver is in the 300 E target along with the Nagaoka ML150 and several carts from AT, Denon, Ortofon also.
The high quality styli for replacement are a big plus for AT it seems.
Have to see if it fits with my tonearms, seems the 1500mk1 has 17g and the SL-D3 has 12g eff mass

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Re: New cart ?

Post by raphaelmabo » 20 May 2019 13:07

If you liked the Benz MC20E2, then I would suggest the LP Gear BIN 215 or BIN 323 (with higher quality stylus). The LP Gear BIN is, like the Benz MC20, based upon the Excel MC100 design - but with some tweaks and updates.

https://www.lpgear.com/product/BIN215.html
https://www.lpgear.com/product/BIN323.html
Here's a review: http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/lp-gear- ... tridge/%22
They will work in a medium to high mass tonearm.

PG Gear also has the The Vessel series, like the A3SV with a "vivid line" (actually a hyperelliptical). Replaceable stylus and several upgrade options.
https://www.lpgear.com/product/THEVESSELA3SV.html
I have the A3SE and like it for it's organic musicality. Made by Excel Sound Corp., that also made the Benz MC20 for Benz. Warmer than the MC Silver.

The Benz MC Silver/MC Gold (I have the MC Silver myself) are of Benz own design (has nothing to do with the MC20 or Excel MC100) and more neutral sounding, more details but also less warmth. More accurate, but perhaps less charm. But I love my MC Silver for it's *presence* and 3D imaging, the music feels alive in the room, almost like I can touch the notes.

The Denon DL103 may suit your 1500 with 17g tonearm.

patient_ot
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Re: New cart ?

Post by patient_ot » 20 May 2019 15:50

T.O.S. wrote:
19 May 2019 10:44
I can get locally the VM95ML with 178 E and the VM540ML with 225 E
The 45 E difference isn't too big .But is there quality (sound) difference between them ?
There is a big compliance difference between the two carts. The 540 is higher compliance and designed for a lighter tonearm. If you have a medium to medium-heavy mass tonearm + headshell I would choose the 95ML over the 540.

T.O.S.
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Re: New cart ?

Post by T.O.S. » 20 May 2019 19:25

patient_ot wrote:
20 May 2019 15:50
T.O.S. wrote:
19 May 2019 10:44
I can get locally the VM95ML with 178 E and the VM540ML with 225 E
The 45 E difference isn't too big .But is there quality (sound) difference between them ?
There is a big compliance difference between the two carts. The 540 is higher compliance and designed for a lighter tonearm. If you have a medium to medium-heavy mass tonearm + headshell I would choose the 95ML over the 540.
Thank you , interesting , I searched and found some differences indeed
VM95ML -Dynamic compliance: 7 × 10-6 cm/dyne (100Hz) 7x1.75 : aprox 12,so low compliance
VM540ML -Dynamic compliance: 10 × 10-6 cm/dyne (100Hz) 10x1.75 : aprox 17.5 ,so high to very high compliance (13-25 x10-6cm/dyne)

The tonearm of SL-D3 is 12g ,SL-1500 is 17g both medium mass in the 10-25g . Probably they both fit but 95 better on the 17g tonearm

T.O.S.
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Re: New cart ?

Post by T.O.S. » 20 May 2019 19:50

raphaelmabo wrote:
20 May 2019 13:07
If you liked the Benz MC20E2, then I would suggest the LP Gear BIN 215 or BIN 323 (with higher quality stylus). The LP Gear BIN is, like the Benz MC20, based upon the Excel MC100 design - but with some tweaks and updates.

https://www.lpgear.com/product/BIN215.html
https://www.lpgear.com/product/BIN323.html
Here's a review: http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/lp-gear- ... tridge/%22
They will work in a medium to high mass tonearm.

PG Gear also has the The Vessel series, like the A3SV with a "vivid line" (actually a hyperelliptical). Replaceable stylus and several upgrade options.
https://www.lpgear.com/product/THEVESSELA3SV.html
I have the A3SE and like it for it's organic musicality. Made by Excel Sound Corp., that also made the Benz MC20 for Benz. Warmer than the MC Silver.

The Benz MC Silver/MC Gold (I have the MC Silver myself) are of Benz own design (has nothing to do with the MC20 or Excel MC100) and more neutral sounding, more details but also less warmth. More accurate, but perhaps less charm. But I love my MC Silver for it's *presence* and 3D imaging, the music feels alive in the room, almost like I can touch the notes.

The Denon DL103 may suit your 1500 with 17g tonearm.
Thanks , very interesting info about the BIN cartridges They seem promissing
Last edited by T.O.S. on 20 May 2019 20:29, edited 1 time in total.

patient_ot
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Re: New cart ?

Post by patient_ot » 20 May 2019 20:28

T.O.S. wrote:
20 May 2019 19:25
patient_ot wrote:
20 May 2019 15:50
T.O.S. wrote:
19 May 2019 10:44
I can get locally the VM95ML with 178 E and the VM540ML with 225 E
The 45 E difference isn't too big .But is there quality (sound) difference between them ?
There is a big compliance difference between the two carts. The 540 is higher compliance and designed for a lighter tonearm. If you have a medium to medium-heavy mass tonearm + headshell I would choose the 95ML over the 540.
Thank you , interesting , I searched and found some differences indeed
VM95ML -Dynamic compliance: 7 × 10-6 cm/dyne (100Hz) 7x1.75 : aprox 12,so low compliance
VM540ML -Dynamic compliance: 10 × 10-6 cm/dyne (100Hz) 10x1.75 : aprox 17.5 ,so high to very high compliance (13-25 x10-6cm/dyne)

The tonearm of SL-D3 is 12g ,SL-1500 is 17g both medium mass in the 10-25g . Probably they both fit but 95 better on the 17g tonearm
I use the 95ML on a 23g tonearm and get a 9hz resonance.

I know another guy that uses the same cart on one of the heavier 70s Technics arms and he also gets a 9hz resonance.

I would expect the 540 to be a borderline match at best on your 17g arm. Depending on the headshell you use the effective mass may actually be heavier which is another argument in support of the 95ML in this situation.

Alec124c41
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Re: New cart ?

Post by Alec124c41 » 20 May 2019 20:50

I have a Benz MC20E2H, and it is a very fine cartridge. If the stylus is worn, then the BIN 215 is probably your best bet.
I don't think some of the others will even be close.
I suppose that Expert Stylus might retip the Benz, too.

Cheers,
Alec

T.O.S.
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Re: New cart ?

Post by T.O.S. » 20 May 2019 21:13

patient_ot wrote:
20 May 2019 20:28
T.O.S. wrote:
20 May 2019 19:25
patient_ot wrote:
20 May 2019 15:50


There is a big compliance difference between the two carts. The 540 is higher compliance and designed for a lighter tonearm. If you have a medium to medium-heavy mass tonearm + headshell I would choose the 95ML over the 540.
Thank you , interesting , I searched and found some differences indeed
VM95ML -Dynamic compliance: 7 × 10-6 cm/dyne (100Hz) 7x1.75 : aprox 12,so low compliance
VM540ML -Dynamic compliance: 10 × 10-6 cm/dyne (100Hz) 10x1.75 : aprox 17.5 ,so high to very high compliance (13-25 x10-6cm/dyne)

The tonearm of SL-D3 is 12g ,SL-1500 is 17g both medium mass in the 10-25g . Probably they both fit but 95 better on the 17g tonearm
I use the 95ML on a 23g tonearm and get a 9hz resonance.

I know another guy that uses the same cart on one of the heavier 70s Technics arms and he also gets a 9hz resonance.

I would expect the 540 to be a borderline match at best on your 17g arm. Depending on the headshell you use the effective mass may actually be heavier which is another argument in support of the 95ML in this situation.
Thank you , good match it seems .
Another good point is the price and value , having a modern ML needle

T.O.S.
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Re: New cart ?

Post by T.O.S. » 20 May 2019 21:17

Alec124c41 wrote:
20 May 2019 20:50
I have a Benz MC20E2H, and it is a very fine cartridge. If the stylus is worn, then the BIN 215 is probably your best bet.
I don't think some of the others will even be close.
I suppose that Expert Stylus might retip the Benz, too.

Cheers,
Alec
Thank you , Alec ! Do you know what's the difference between BIN215 and the BIN323 ?

patient_ot
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Re: New cart ?

Post by patient_ot » 21 May 2019 03:13

T.O.S. wrote:
20 May 2019 21:13

Thank you , good match it seems .
Another good point is the price and value , having a modern ML needle
It's a better value and performs better than my Goldring 1042, which sells for over three times the price here in the U.S. Tracking is insanely good.

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