Hana SL

the thin end of the wedge
Revox B790
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Hana SL

Post by Revox B790 » 22 Apr 2019 09:25

Hi
Is anyone here who has some experience about Hana SL lm very keen to buy one to replace my ortofon VMS 30 mk2.

Cheers

ChrisfromRI
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Re: Hana SL

Post by ChrisfromRI » 23 Apr 2019 01:35

My friend has one, and I have listened to it a lot, and we have made numerous system changes. IME it is a bit lean sounding in tonal balance so it needs to be matched with a warmer sounding system. It has plenty of detail and tracks very well. I am not familiar with your Ortofon though, so I can't draw any comparison.

Agrippa
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Re: Hana SL

Post by Agrippa » 23 Apr 2019 01:54

As above - a friend of mine has one and I've listened to it *a lot*. My opinion is pretty much the opposite: I/we find it slightly warm, but not anywhere near the point where the warmth becomes detrimental. Very "analogue" if you will, in the usual fashion of a Shibata stylus.


The rest I agree with - it's detailed, tracks very well, throws up a great soundstage and overall it's pretty much the MC with the best price/performance ratio that I know of.

Revox B790
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Re: Hana SL

Post by Revox B790 » 23 Apr 2019 04:07

Thk u for your experience. Here in Australia no one has in stock the Hana serie so it very hard to compare with my Ortofon vms30 mk2.
I have few mk2 so will be to have 2 head shell ready and swap form one to the other.but...
For now l stick to what l got.not going to shed $995 without knowing.
Shops should understand that when we buy $100 pair of shoe we can try fit. Why we cannot when it come to spend 1k.
Cheers

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Re: Hana SL

Post by ChrisfromRI » 25 Apr 2019 03:10

Funny how lean on one system might be warm on another, or the listener preference is just different between listeners.

This afternoon I visited my friend with the Hana SL and his system sounded quite better than before. Then he told me that his Koetsu Rosewood finally came back from being retipped with a fine elliptical stylus. I asked him about his Hana SL and if he was setting it aside for the time being, and he said his Koetsu sounded sounded so much better that he sold off the Hana SL a couple of days ago. Just to reconfirm, I asked him if he thought his Hana SL was a little lean and he said: "Yes, that's why it's gone." His Koetsu sounded great!

Agrippa
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Re: Hana SL

Post by Agrippa » 25 Apr 2019 05:29

Different systems, different ears with different performance, different subjective preferences.

That said, I've never before encountered anyone who thought the Hana was "lean", nor have I ever read such an opinion in a review. Rather, the watchwords tend to be "mellow", "full-bodied" and other words to the same effect. Which leads me to suspect sub-optimal set-up or an arm/cartridge incompatibility.

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Re: Hana SL

Post by ChrisfromRI » 25 Apr 2019 06:23

I never got to hear it on my system which I know even better. I was actually going to ask to borrow it, but it was already gone. My system is even a little more revealing which is why I so much appreciate my ZYX and Lyra cartridges which are certainly quite upmarket from the Hana, so it would have just been a test. My friend's system is very revealing though and very well setup in a dedicated room. His Hana was on a Basis turntable with Fidelity Research FR-14 arm, as was the newly retipped Koetsu Rosewood, both feeding a Mitch Cotter transformer and very high end electronics and extraordinarily well setup speaker system. I can certainly say that his Koetsu is a little on the warm side and colorful side of neutral, and his system sounded a lot better with it than with the Hana. I wouldn't buy one hearing the slight lean-ness that I heard, since I prefer neutral or the warm side of neutral. The new ML might be a bit better as it incorporates a brass plate on its top with tapped holes, in Excel's evolution of their line. I do see a lot of Hanas available used which leads me to believe they were not a successful match, or maybe they were enough of a good experience for the owner to move further up the ladder, or they got back their higher end retip.

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Re: Hana SL

Post by Agrippa » 25 Apr 2019 08:23

Hard to imagine the Hana wouldn't be a good match with the FR-14, given the specs and my own very slight experience with it. Still, who knows.

For my own part I've heard the Hana in three systems: my own, relatively recently, on a Nottingham Ace Space with an MA-505X arm, and those of two friends, on a Nottingham Dais/SME V-12 + Wilson Benesch Act 25 and on an Acoustic Solid Wood/MA-505. All with commensurate electronics and speakers. In all of them it sounded full-bodied and slightly warm, even though our systems are sonically relatively different.

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Re: Hana SL

Post by Tarzan » 28 Apr 2019 08:56

l have two- one in an SME V and one in an Audionote Arm1 V2 and if your arm is compatible buy one is it a genuine bargain, it has a smooth, full, musical and one of the best trackers around, surface noise is very low a great cartridge.

Just seen some posts above saying it is 'lean'.... not in my two systems is not, suppose we all hear different things. :mrgreen:

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Re: Hana SL

Post by ChrisfromRI » 28 Apr 2019 16:26

Tarzan wrote:
28 Apr 2019 08:56
l have two- one in an SME V and one in an Audionote Arm1 V2 and if your arm is compatible buy one is it a genuine bargain, it has a smooth, full, musical and one of the best trackers around, surface noise is very low a great cartridge.

Just seen some posts above saying it is 'lean'.... not in my two systems is not, suppose we all hear different things. :mrgreen:
I heard the Hana SL in an excellent arm, the Fidelity Research FR-14 on a Basis turntable, and heard it compared to two more expensive LOMC cartridges: re-tipped Koetsu Rosewood with an Elliptical Stylus; ZYX R-100 Fuji with a Line Contact Stylus. All were played through the same Mitch Cotter step-up transformer into very high-end electronics and a very well set-up full range speaker system carefully matched to the room. The Koetsu and the ZYX were warmer and pulled you into the musical performance better than the Hana, which was admittedly much less expensive. The Hana sounded leaner that the Koetsu and ZYX on that system and was the reason its owner decided after using it for six months to sell it off when his re-tipped Koetsu returned from the re-tipper. He had also tried it with a Fidelity Research Step-up with two winding ratio taps, and a JFET active step-up before determining his Mitch Cotter step-up transformer sounded the best.

The Hana is clearly a very good value cartridge and tracks well, just not quite so musical as some more upmarket cartridges to my ears and more importantly to my friend, the system owners' ears. After hearing it on his system compared to the Koetsu and ZYX I wouldn't buy one myself, primarily because I already own cartrdiges from Koetsu and ZYX, and Lyra.

IMO the Hana SL is a re-freshed Denon DL-103 and clearly very good at its price point. That its internal impedance is quite high like the Denon makes it a perfect choice for systems looking to upgrade from the DL-103.

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Re: Hana SL

Post by theclosetguy » 28 Apr 2019 18:40

I posted about the Hana 6 months ago. I was very disappointed in its performance. Loading was tough, I had to have a SUT specifically made to match the cartridge at 600ohms. Expectations were high based on all the reviews, but I was very disappointed. It was no where as musical and dynamic as my Ortofon Quintet Bronze. I passed it off as no synergy with the SAEC We-308sx arm and ceramic headshell.
Ended up selling on e-bay for a big discount. I still have the SUT at 330ohm and 600ohm winding if anyone is interested.
Mike M

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Re: Hana SL

Post by ]eep » 29 Apr 2019 05:29

The Hana will not work with a SUT followed by any 47k input impedance phono-amp. While I'm an absolute fan of tranny's, they do not always work well. That's not the tranny's fault, because they only do I/V conversion (plus some minor issues) but that means they also convert impedance ^2. Contrary to stated above transformers have no impedance of their own. They just translate the input impedance of the following phono-amp to the square of its ratio. So a 1:20 tranny reduces 47kOhm to 47000/20²=~115 Ohm. A 1:12 tranny 47000/12²=~300. That is not enough for the Hana or Denon 103.

So comparing a 5Ohm Koetsu or Zyx to the Hana EL or SL on a tranny is wrong. The Hana is simply mismatched. The new Hana ML however would work since it's low impedance. FYI I bought a AT33PTG as a temporary substitute for my Urushi since it is getting old. And that works very, very well. Yesterday I knocked off the stylus off my Urushi. Aaaagh! Now I don't have a choice. Not that I'm deprived or anything but still. Aaaaargh! #-o

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Re: Hana SL

Post by Revox B790 » 10 May 2019 19:58

Has anyone fit a Hana SL on Revox B790.
Many say that MC cannot be fitted on Revox.
But back to the day Revox brochure was offering Ortofon MC 20.
So MC cart can be .Hana SL is meduim compliance.17-10.6 .
Thk

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Re: Hana SL

Post by ChrisfromRI » 10 May 2019 22:01

Since you can successfully use the high internal impedance Hana, now you need to determine the suitability for your tonearm. The first thing you correctly considered is that the compliance will probably be fine, maybe with the addition of a headshell weight. I had some experience with ultra-short effective length linear trackers, and they typically have warp-wow issues with even slightly warped records if you use an advanced stylus shape like a Shibata or Micro-Line. A simpler Elliptical stylus cartridge will IMO be more listenable with more records. There is a list of cartridges on this site's database for your turntable and most are high compliance but that was more common back then.

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Re: Hana SL

Post by Revox B790 » 10 May 2019 23:33

Revox B790 has no tonearn as a such.
Need to find someone who has a Revox B790/795/791 who experience the Hana.

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