Preamp for 78s

the thin end of the wedge
Sequoia225
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Preamp for 78s

Post by Sequoia225 » 11 Apr 2019 09:21

I want to ask again - but more focused this time - on preamp options for playing old (pre RIAA) records.
I have gotten into this a bit, had a Technics 1200 modded to play 78, and got a cart and stylus for it.
I will also be using a conventional stylus - 2 headshells swapped at leisure.
But this leads me to the preamp issue. I want to record some old records into my computer.
I have learned a bit about all the old different eq's that were used and such.
I was advised before to look into something KAB made, that has 12 switchable eq curves, and lots of features, but
he no longer makes it. The other one he has doesnt have as many features and is only a mono out.
I would like to buy one preamp, that I can play modern records through - but also can play my 78s through, and switch the eq curve to match whatever I am playing. I have now heard of the MK12 MK4 made in Europe, but I have yet to figure out how to get one.

What are my options for a preamp with all the different eq curves built into the box. Or do I really just need to get a preamp that will sum to mono and be able to switch to flat? I am trying to figure out options but I am not coming up with much.

AudioFeline
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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by AudioFeline » 11 Apr 2019 11:57

If you are comfortable building a preamp, there is:
- the Silicon Chip magazine kit (available from Altronics)
- The Rod Elliott phono preamp (board available from his website), which he also gives info on setting different eq curve circuits (add a switch to the circuit); he also has a kit for a rumble filter which can be added to the preamp.

DeepEnd
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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by DeepEnd » 11 Apr 2019 14:03

There are a few options but at the higher end of the market perhaps

https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/ph ... eamps.html

There is a link on the page this illustrates some of the playback options (including RIAA)

jdjohn
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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by jdjohn » 11 Apr 2019 17:20

The Parks Audio Puffin should be on the list of options. http://parksaudiollc.com/

* Tilt tone controls for fast, easy sound adjustment
* Twenty gain settings from -4dB (CDs) to 72dB (MCs)
* 12+ phono EQ settings w/ support for early LPs and 78s
* Adjust Bass, Treble, Air, and 4th order HPF & LPFs
* Volume control with cueing mute
* Modes are Stereo, Mono, Left and Right
* Apply transfer functions like tube (2H) and tape (3H)
* Recall default settings (CD, MM, MC) and save your own
* Traditional analog inputs and outputs (RCA type)

Bob Dillon
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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by Bob Dillon » 11 Apr 2019 18:18

The Puffin is great with 78's. You can also configure it to play vertically cut records.

You can look at some of the stuff that Esoteric Sound sells. I like their Re-Equalizer III unit (been out for awhile). It's solid, but it isn't preamp on it's own, you either need to run it through a tape loop or use external phono preamp.

They have a NEW, new adjustable preamp called an 'Ultra' that is interesting at it's price point. I almost feel like buying an Ultra just to try it.

https://www.esotericsound.com/elect.htm

Sequoia225
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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by Sequoia225 » 11 Apr 2019 18:44

AudioFeline wrote:
11 Apr 2019 11:57
If you are comfortable building a preamp, there is:
- the Silicon Chip magazine kit (available from Altronics)
- The Rod Elliott phono preamp (board available from his website), which he also gives info on setting different eq curve circuits (add a switch to the circuit); he also has a kit for a rumble filter which can be added to the preamp.
I appreciate the suggestions - but I am not comfortable doing this stuff. I wish I could say I could. I am an audio professional actually, but never got a good background in deeper electronics. I did basic stuff like this when I was younger, and I wouldnt be opposed to delving into it, but I am not set up for such a thing and just dont have the time for it all. Much respect to those of you that have these skills and are set up to build things like this.

Sequoia225
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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by Sequoia225 » 11 Apr 2019 18:46

This is all very great people! - keep the suggestions coming - I like to know all my options! This is why I love you people!!

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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by Bob Dillon » 11 Apr 2019 19:18

Sequoia225 wrote:
11 Apr 2019 09:21

I was advised before to look into something KAB made, that has 12 switchable eq curves, and lots of features, but
he no longer makes it. The other one he has doesnt have as many features and is only a mono out.
It would appear the other one does let you run it in stereo bypass mode? So, it's features are bypassed in stereo but maybe for modern stereo stuff you wouldn't really need them anyway ? RIAA was implemented in 1954, right on the cusp of the stereo era. I think the first consumer stereo r2r tapes came on the market in '54. Stereo phonorecords were a few years after that.

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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by Bob Dillon » 12 Apr 2019 00:43

Sequoia225 wrote:
11 Apr 2019 18:46
I like to know all my options!
Graham Slee makes some preamps with EQ compensation for vintage records. Apart from that I'm drawing a blank on what other hardware is out there being made right now.

Sequoia225
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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by Sequoia225 » 14 Apr 2019 18:30

Graham Slee seems to make a lot of stuff - and I see something called the JAzz Club that seems to be for older records, but as someone posted above, there is also the Revelation - which seems similar. I cant find a site though that has all the graham slee stuff so I can compare what is available. Anyone know of a site that shows their stuff in its entirety?

DeepEnd
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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by DeepEnd » 14 Apr 2019 20:25

My link above takes you to the GS Revelation but here the cover page that allows you to pick what style of phono you want.

https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/phono-preamps/

ChrisfromRI
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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by ChrisfromRI » 14 Apr 2019 22:35

I settled on using a phono preamp for 78s that has the normal RIAA bass boost, but that is perfectly flat in the treble (unlike the RIAA treble cut). There are so many different 78 EQs that I don't want to bother with looking up every single 78 label for its settings as the 78 will be over in a few minutes and this basic setting works for most. I use a Grado 78C and back to back Y-Cables in its tonearm's leads, and I also use a Burwen Dynamic Noise Filter to scrub the basic surface noise real-time. This has all served me well and 78s are very enjoyable.

Sequoia225
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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by Sequoia225 » 15 Apr 2019 17:18

DeepEnd wrote:
14 Apr 2019 20:25
My link above takes you to the GS Revelation but here the cover page that allows you to pick what style of phono you want.

https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/phono-preamps/
My apologies, somehow I didnt get it that that site WAS their actual site. I see it now. Thank you!
I also last night found a link where they explained what the difference was between their Jazz Club and the Revelation.

for anyone curious - they respond on this forum post: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/fo ... c4540.html

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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by Coffee Phil » 16 Apr 2019 02:38

Hi Sequoia,

You need to decide which features are important to you. For example, is there any chance that you will ever get into vertically cut records? Such records can be played with a stereo cartridge with the cartridge channels summed out of phase. Some time back when you were getting your machine modded, I posted the schematic of my Legacy Phono stage. It will sum the channels to mono for either lateral cut records or vertical cut records with the throw of a switch. It also gives an assortment of bass turn and treble cut frequiencies. The turntable output can also be routed to my stereo stage with the throw of a switch. There was a box similar to mine called an Owl 1. They are no longer made but come up on eBay from time to time.

The descripton on the Puffin was not explit enough to be sure it would do vertical records, but they spoke of inverting the the phase in one channel so it may do the job.

Phil

Sequoia225 wrote:
11 Apr 2019 09:21
I want to ask again - but more focused this time - on preamp options for playing old (pre RIAA) records.
I have gotten into this a bit, had a Technics 1200 modded to play 78, and got a cart and stylus for it.
I will also be using a conventional stylus - 2 headshells swapped at leisure.
But this leads me to the preamp issue. I want to record some old records into my computer.
I have learned a bit about all the old different eq's that were used and such.
I was advised before to look into something KAB made, that has 12 switchable eq curves, and lots of features, but
he no longer makes it. The other one he has doesnt have as many features and is only a mono out.
I would like to buy one preamp, that I can play modern records through - but also can play my 78s through, and switch the eq curve to match whatever I am playing. I have now heard of the MK12 MK4 made in Europe, but I have yet to figure out how to get one.

What are my options for a preamp with all the different eq curves built into the box. Or do I really just need to get a preamp that will sum to mono and be able to switch to flat? I am trying to figure out options but I am not coming up with much.

Bob Dillon
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Re: Preamp for 78s

Post by Bob Dillon » 16 Apr 2019 03:29

The Puffin can be set to play vertical records. The fly in the oinment is that to do so means that the tone controls and everything else on it is disabled, so you have to use to tone controls on your amp or something to modify the sound further. To do vertical on the Puffin :
1) Set the mode to mono
2) Set the phase to mixed
3) Fine balance control - selected and cursor left blinking

This works. Just messing with the phase control does not.

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