point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

the thin end of the wedge
tlscapital
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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by tlscapital » 30 Mar 2019 01:11

goatbreath wrote:
29 Mar 2019 22:31
The boxes with the styli in them from Thakker actually have Jico written on them,
Thakker also stated in correspondence that the styli are indeed made by Jico..
The Thakker Japan M75 styli I have genuinely track very good,they clear track 3 on the HIFI News disc,
although they have no tie wire..
They also sound very good..
This makes everything less simple I guess..
True; I just checked my Thakker boxes and they state 'Jico' on them. At Thakker I have bought the N 44-7 'Club/DJ' Jico stylus and the N 44-7 (classic) also supposedly manufactured by Jico and in comparison, the 'classic' by Jico sounds very close to a real Shure original N 44-7 'Classic' stylus mounted on a Shure M 44-7 cartridge.

So a rather good match generic stylus in many regards. Either be it real Jico or not. Although the lower compliant 'Club/DJ' stylus won in comparison. Now comparing the plastic housing of those stylus, I wonder; could those sold by Thakker be of "another" standard than those Jico sells ? From left to right; Thakker 'Club' - Jico 'Club' - Jico 'Classic'.
Capture d’écran 2019-03-30 à 01.59.14.jpg
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The Thakker 'Club' gets the same housing as the Jico 'Classic' but the Jico 'Club' is in another in plastic housing and it has that extra protective flap. The 'Club' sold by Jico is also pricier than the one sold by Thakker. That extra protective flap could explain that some or is there more to it ? I'd like to test and really compare one bought from Jico one day.

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by goatbreath » 30 Mar 2019 01:56

There seems to be the thought that Jico does indeed make the styli for Thakker,
but buying direct from Jico gets you a different product.
Or when it comes to Shure replacement styli it does..
So Jico builds a cheaper stylus for Thakker..
In the case of Shure replacements,ones with a tie wire and apparently the Jicos
if bought from Jico track at the same weight as the Original.

The only fully Jico.Jico badged styli I have bought was the SAS.
I have never bought an Elliptical or Conical straight from Jico..
Others have though and showed the Jico Box..

I have what I think is the Jico Classic M44 7,although I have 2 late Shure M44 7 originals..
I think the Shure M44 7 originals are actually more coloured,but in a kind of good way,
when you play 45 RPM singles it has this sort of explosive Juke Box sound..
I thought my M44 7 Jico Thakker was a .6 tip..
I did read about people complaining of Cue burn with the Jico,
so maybe they have changed it to .7 because of this..
I don't know if a .7 tip would change Cue burn..
Maybe Jico updated the whole assembly though..
The whole DJ market will demand a good replacement for the 44 7 I guess..
I imagine that the 44 7 is what kept the Shure phono department open really..
There are loads of those cartridge bodies out there waiting on a good replacement..

tlscapital
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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by tlscapital » 30 Mar 2019 03:02

goatbreath wrote:
30 Mar 2019 01:56
There seems to be the thought that Jico does indeed make the styli for Thakker,
but buying direct from Jico gets you a different product.
Or when it comes to Shure replacement styli it does..
So Jico builds a cheaper stylus for Thakker.
In the case of Shure replacements,ones with a tie wire and apparently the Jicos
if bought from Jico track at the same weight as the Original.
Based in Belgium, to buy either in quantity or continuously from Jico (Japan) directly is problematic due to the over expensive import duties, taxes and fees the Belgium customs impose on such products.
goatbreath wrote:
30 Mar 2019 01:56
I have what I think is the Jico Classic M44 7,although I have 2 late Shure M44 7 originals..
I think the Shure M44 7 originals are actually more coloured,but in a kind of good way,
when you play 45 RPM singles it has this sort of explosive Juke Box sound..
I thought my M44 7 Jico Thakker was a .6 tip..
I did read about people complaining of Cue burn with the Jico,
so maybe they have changed it to .7 because of this..
I don't know if a .7 tip would change Cue burn..
Maybe Jico updated the whole assembly though..
The whole DJ market will demand a good replacement for the 44 7 I guess..
I imagine that the 44 7 is what kept the Shure phono department open really..
There are loads of those cartridge bodies out there waiting on a good replacement..
Cue burn with a conical stylus ? A damaged stylus, azimuth or SRA issues, yes I could imagine inducing cue burns, but otherwise... I can't picture that. But maybe I'd need to learn something new :wink:

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by KentT » 02 Apr 2019 15:00

I have no issues with cue burn on a properly set up conical stylus with a .6 or .7 mil tip.

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by BMRR » 02 Apr 2019 15:20

I've heard some DJs complain about cue burn, and record wear in general, with some Ortofon DJ cartridges/styli, specifically the heavier tracking Concorde types like the S-120, Elektro, and Pro / Pro S. I know a couple of professional DJs who switched from Ortofon back to Shure M44-7 because of this. They found that their records hold up better with the Shure.

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by KentT » 02 Apr 2019 19:36

BMRR wrote:
02 Apr 2019 15:20
I've heard some DJs complain about cue burn, and record wear in general, with some Ortofon DJ cartridges/styli, specifically the heavier tracking Concorde types like the S-120, Elektro, and Pro / Pro S. I know a couple of professional DJs who switched from Ortofon back to Shure M44-7 because of this. They found that their records hold up better with the Shure.
Ortofon has a new OM1s stylus (which tracks at 1.75 grams) which is .7 mil conical. Sold as a HiFi product, that is a viable option if a bit costly. And that one can be backcued if careful. I currently use an OM Pro S but also have found that on my Technics SL-1500 stock arm, it tracks well at 2 grams (and tracks no better at heavier forces). I can understand why the DJ community has better success with Shure M 44-7 cartridges as far as record wear is concerned, because of their higher compliance and the fact that that cartridge was also designed for low record wear in professional service (many were used for jukeboxes and AM/FM broadcasting work). For me, I like the Ortofon best for mono 45 RPM disc playback, for me it gives less noise for that application.

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by Boltman92124 » 02 Apr 2019 21:14

I prefer the sound of the Genuine N35x stylus vs the Jico's myself(have n447x and n44gx). LP Gear is out of them though. They do have some M35x complete carts available...for a whopping $99. Genuine N35x is a .7 and tracks 1.5-3g. Higher compliance though, but better sounding than SC35c according to many.

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by tlscapital » 03 Apr 2019 14:18

KentT wrote:
02 Apr 2019 19:36
Ortofon has a new OM1s stylus (which tracks at 1.75 grams) which is .7 mil conical. Sold as a HiFi product, that is a viable option if a bit costly. And that one can be backcued if careful... ...For me, I like the Ortofon best for mono 45 RPM disc playback, for me it gives less noise for that application.
Not so costly though @ +/- $60. But it's a STEREO cartridge ! And with those Ortofon cartridge design you can't even cross bind the channels for a "fake" MONO conversion... How can it give less noise while picking up "vertical" noise and distortion signals ?

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by tlscapital » 04 Apr 2019 13:41

chiz wrote:
26 Mar 2019 14:13
tlscapital wrote:
26 Mar 2019 14:02
…after the down fall of the original 'White Label' styluses and no good generic replacements to be find.
Are you aware of these Tonar branded Whitelabel styli?

I’ve not heard any reports on the quality but thought they were worth mentioning
REPORT : OK, purchased and went last nite to that bar where I've brought them their newly acquired through me; 2nd hand Shure M44-7 pair of cartridges mounted on Techies headshells to "fit" their beloved SL-1200 'GR's and test the Tonar 'White Label' next to Jico stylus from Thakker's (to be specific); the N44-7 'Club'.

Where we remembered that the sole last original Shure 'White Label' I still had sounded loud and "open" (as clear and present), this Tonar 'White Label' trial sadly proved no different than the compatible from Jico (bought again from Thakker); the SS35-C. Who sounded "tiny" and "distant" as such and worse in comparison.

Those Shure 'White Label' cartridges should deserve to see better manufactured stylus replacements still. But one would have to dip deep into it's "build" to provide a result that reaches toward the original's performance. That no replacements styluses, no matter how decent, have yet achieved to my ears at least that is.

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by KentT » 04 Apr 2019 21:03

tlscapital wrote:
03 Apr 2019 14:18
KentT wrote:
02 Apr 2019 19:36
Ortofon has a new OM1s stylus (which tracks at 1.75 grams) which is .7 mil conical. Sold as a HiFi product, that is a viable option if a bit costly. And that one can be backcued if careful... ...For me, I like the Ortofon best for mono 45 RPM disc playback, for me it gives less noise for that application.
Not so costly though @ +/- $60. But it's a STEREO cartridge ! And with those Ortofon cartridge design you can't even cross bind the channels for a "fake" MONO conversion... How can it give less noise while picking up "vertical" noise and distortion signals ?
For mono, I am using the OM Pro S, tracked at 2 grams. Which only has response up to 18 Kilohertz, which reduces noise on the top end, and also, this stylus excels at mono. I like the OM1s for Stereo, and really nice mono discs, and OM 10 stylus for nice modern records.

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by chiz » 05 Apr 2019 00:17

tlscapital wrote:
04 Apr 2019 13:41
Thanks for the report. Sorry to hear these were a disappointment.

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by mamakasou » 05 Apr 2019 15:07

Regarding the Shure Whitelabels, I can still find a couple of originals. Csn I use them on a Shure M35X body?

And if so, has anyone had experience with both Whitelabel and M35X? Or a Shure SC35C for comparison?

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by KentT » 05 Apr 2019 16:00

If your arm can't track at 5 grams, is not high mass a la broadcast or vintage changer, the SC 35C is not your cartridge. The M 35 X is a better choice for average tonearms of medium mass, but I still favor the M 44-7 (and Jico's Classic stylus in my older bodies)

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by Boltman92124 » 05 Apr 2019 17:28

KentT wrote:
05 Apr 2019 16:00
If your arm can't track at 5 grams, is not high mass a la broadcast or vintage changer, the SC 35C is not your cartridge. The M 35 X is a better choice for average tonearms of medium mass, but I still favor the M 44-7 (and Jico's Classic stylus in my older bodies)
I threw on my M35x with the Jico N44g-x stylus last night. It was sounding pretty nice indeed. Tracking it at 1.25g. LP Gear is out of the genuine N35x stylus now..was about to order another one.

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Re: point 7 thou stylus,any in production that track 3 grams or under..

Post by maxwellite » 06 Apr 2019 02:05

I have a Shure Whitelabel with stylus and a SC35C missing its stylus. The Whitelabel stylus sounds good on both bodies. Not surprising since the bodies have identical electrical specs. I haven't done a direct comparison, so I can't comment on how they differ. I think that integrated heashell and shape are the main difference between the M35X and the Whitelabel.