JICO MC

the thin end of the wedge
TA

JICO MC

Post by TA » 07 May 2018 21:27

I saw a pic of the coming JICO MC cartridge on Steve Hoffman forum:

http://snvinyl.co.uk/WebRoot/Daily/Shop ... d_19_m.jpg

Spec quoted (the output must be 0.2 mV?). Nothing spectacular, but then the JICOs measures in general much better than the given spec. I wonder what the price will be.

"Seto carving / SETO-HORI" product specification

Output: 2 mV
Output balance: <1.5 dB / 1 kHz Stylus
pressure: 2.0 g
Channel separation: 25 dB / 1 kHz
Frequency response: 15 - 32,000 Hz
Output impedance: 130 Ω / 1 kHz
Boron cantilever

Chip shape: Micro ridge
chassis: crown and natural wood
body weight 11 grams *

Boltman92124
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Re: JICO MC

Post by Boltman92124 » 07 May 2018 22:12

wrote:I saw a pic of the coming JICO MC cartridge on Steve Hoffman forum:

http://snvinyl.co.uk/WebRoot/Daily/Shop ... d_19_m.jpg

Spec quoted (the output must be 0.2 mV?). Nothing spectacular, but then the JICOs measures in general much better than the given spec. I wonder what the price will be.

"Seto carving / SETO-HORI" product specification

Output: 2 mV
Output balance: <1.5 dB / 1 kHz Stylus
pressure: 2.0 g
Channel separation: 25 dB / 1 kHz
Frequency response: 15 - 32,000 Hz
Output impedance: 130 Ω / 1 kHz
Boron cantilever

Chip shape: Micro ridge
chassis: crown and natural wood
body weight 11 grams *
2mv would be correct for a high output MC.

TA

Re: JICO MC

Post by TA » 07 May 2018 22:37

spec for the Hana/Excel....

Stylus: Elliptical
Cantilever: Aluminum
Output: 2mV
Output Balance: <2dB1KH
Tracking Force: 2g
Channel Separation: 22dB/1kHz
Frequency Response: 15-25,000Hz
Impedance: 130ohms/1kHz
Suggested Load: 47k
Weight: 5g
Color: Green

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Re: JICO MC

Post by sliceofhogan » 09 May 2018 08:36

Yes, all are cooking with water and use excel to produce to taste....
Here another supplier:
http://www.acrylteller.com/EXCALIBUR-TA ... CARTRIDGES

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Re: JICO MC

Post by mkoerner » 16 May 2018 22:13

Well,

first reports of users do appear, a well known german High End user just gave a rave Review in german Forums. He considers it to better Koetsu Gold Line and Black and Close to the Stone Bodies with a very Koetsu-ish Sound.

Apparently it was presented at the German High-End Audio fair and was sold there for a Special Price and even the current Street Price Looks promising.

Mine is on order :-)...

BTW: this is definitely no Excel produce. They build their own ceramic Body and assemble the generator themself. Of Course they buy the Stylus assembly (namiki) and maybe the Generator Frame but that is a genuine Jico Product as far as I can understand.

Mike

Mike

TA

Re: JICO MC

Post by TA » 16 May 2018 22:55

Price?

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Re: JICO MC

Post by BMRR » 17 May 2018 00:01

It certainly is unique looking! It looks like a pillow.

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Re: JICO MC

Post by ripblade » 17 May 2018 00:35

wrote:Price?
$999US.

Just going by the specs, it certainly resembles the Hana, which I presume is OEM Excel. Jico installed the SAS/boron and developed a ceramic body for it. Or maybe Jico just took the coils.... :-k

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Re: JICO MC

Post by mkoerner » 17 May 2018 08:54

The Specs for better made HO-MCs look mostly the same. Thats no Criteria and there are differences. MAYBE they use a Generator Frame from Excel. In your logic all cars are from Bosch, because virtually every car has (most even lost of) Parts from Bosch!

Price on the Fair was around 900€. Price for Sale in Europe very likely around 1600€.

Mike

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Re: JICO MC

Post by mkoerner » 28 Jun 2018 15:54

I have one running now for two weeks and I can tell:

it's a very good cartridge!

It's a clear advance over good MMs with their SAS Needles (incl. S & R Type). It's neutral, livly with tight, not bloomy bass and beatifult rendering of Voices. Very good representation of Room. I also own a Benz Wood S L and the Seto-Hori is quite close in most aspects, except in voices where it even beats the Benz. Given that it's far cheaper and less problematic to pair with regards to phonostages (High Output!) it's really worth a recommendation IF you can balance it, as it's quite heavy.

As i prefer a very slightly bloomy bass over a dry one, I consider a pairing with an EAR 834p (or clone) to be an excellent match with very good value.

Mike

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Re: JICO MC

Post by billshurv » 29 Jun 2018 00:13

I forget the amazing inflation of phono gear. I was thinking how my Benz L0 was only $700 at the time, but the time was last century!

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Re: JICO MC

Post by antennaguru » 29 Jun 2018 01:38

I just don’t see the purpose of the high output MC. To create higher output you burden the generator with more windings, mass, and impedance that is typically a poor match. IMO when you only have a MM phono stage you can use a MM , MI, or a LOMC with a transformer. There is just no need to compromise wth a HOMC.

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Re: JICO MC

Post by ripblade » 29 Jun 2018 01:54

antennaguru wrote:I just don’t see the purpose of the high output MC. To create higher output you burden the generator with more windings, mass, and impedance that is typically a poor match. IMO when you only have a MM phono stage you can use a MM , MI, or a LOMC with a transformer. There is just no need to compromise wth a HOMC.
Everything is a compromise...

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Re: JICO MC

Post by antennaguru » 29 Jun 2018 04:39

ripblade wrote:
antennaguru wrote:I just don’t see the purpose of the high output MC. To create higher output you burden the generator with more windings, mass, and impedance that is typically a poor match. IMO when you only have a MM phono stage you can use a MM , MI, or a LOMC with a transformer. There is just no need to compromise wth a HOMC.
Everything is a compromise...
Yes, I agree that there are many compromises we need to make in our world of record playback. Having owned several HOMCs over the 1990s I feel they all forced making larger compromises to the sound than LOMCs with step-ups did.

To be absolutely sure, I most recently had the opportunity to hear two current state of the art ZYX cartridges back to back on the same setup, the "high output" version had 0.48 mV output while the better sounding "low output" version had only 0.24 mV output. They cost the same so I bought the better sounding one which had lower output, and happened to have half the windings thus half the winding mass on its generator/cantilever.

As to the Jico cartridge described in this thread they will hopefully also make a lower output version which will have lower impedance due to fewer coil windings, for those that prefer making less of a compromise to the sound. I would be interested in that, but not this version overburdened with so many windings and such high impedance, to deliver a misfit 2 mV output and 130 ohm impedance. it will not be a contest as to which sounds better. Coupled with their excellent styli they could have a real winner.

The only allure I can see to the manufacturer of a HOMC is the thought that they can appeal to a broader buying public, when in reality the buying public in the market for $1000 and over cartridges is generally more knowledgable than they give us credit for being. At the end of the 1990s I had determined that HOMCs with 1.5 - 3.5 mV output didn't even sound as good as the better MI and MM cartridges of that era (Grade Sig 8 and Shure V15xMR), without even comparing to the LOMC with a transformer. Even today in the world of ultra low shot-noise FET devices it takes quite an expensive all active LOMC phono stage to beat a passive transformer with a decent active MM phono stage - but today they both certainly do exist!

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Re: JICO MC

Post by mkoerner » 29 Jun 2018 08:49

Well,

As I said, (and i'm not alone with the opinion) Jico managed to do a HO MC which still ist "fast" and has good transients and PRAT. There ist a clear market, at least in Japan, as Tube oriented Persons might consider this as a good choice.

I can't really join your opinion on Transformers. Imho Transformers are always sort of compromise as they tend to add voicing and need carefully matched (and then quickly get more expensive than the cartridge).

Imho active Amplification has reached a much better price-performance ratio and is overall more neutral and easier to match.

With a good tube MM-Phono and this cart you can achieve stunning results for a really good price (see my recommandation for the EAR).

Owning V15VxMR (with both orignal & Jico needle) and a few other good MMs I can tell you, the Seto-Hori definitely is better!

BTW: The weight of the coil windings doesn't contribute so much to the effective mass, as they are close to the bearing point. The Mass of the diamond and the mass of the cantilever itself are typically a stronger influence, as effective mass goes into calculation squarely to the distance from the bearing.

Mike

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