Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

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Laila1
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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by Laila1 » 14 Dec 2018 21:09

Laila1 wrote:....
And I am sure that you own the Ortofon test record yourself??? And it is a little bit fun when a lot of writers here and there swears that the better the CS, the wider the soundstage(when in fact it's the other way around). :wink: ....

/ Lars
Please let me clarify my self . . . I mean the artificial "soundstage" that is going to
happen with an all too low, between 10 to 15 dB, CA.
And as cafe latte says, we are not able to hear so much better than about 20dB in total.

/ Lars

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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by Laila1 » 14 Dec 2018 22:14

Laila1 wrote:
14 Dec 2018 21:09
Laila1 wrote:....
And I am sure that you own the Ortofon test record yourself??? And it is a little bit fun when a lot of writers here and there swears that the better the CS, the wider the soundstage(when in fact it's the other way around). :wink: ....

/ Lars
Please let me clarify my self . . . I mean the artificial "soundstage" that is going to
happen with an all too low, between 10 to 15 dB, CA.
And as cafe latte says, we are not able to hear so much better than about 20dB in total.

/ Lars

But of course, a higher CA is always better than a lower/worse CA.

cafe latte
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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by cafe latte » 14 Dec 2018 23:00

Laila1 wrote:
14 Dec 2018 13:16
cafe latte wrote:
14 Dec 2018 12:29
Laila1 wrote:
14 Dec 2018 11:09
Sorry "cafe latte", but in this case it seems to me that you are completely wrong. The Jelco 750D is a "match in heaven" whit the Grado Gold2. I know that it seems kind of strange but I got about 10Hz in vertical resonance frequency and the horisontal one is so well damped that I really cant discover where it is, and all that at 1.50g VTF. It is kind of mystical to me howe Grado manage to get the combination of 1.5g VTF and 10Hz in a Jelco at about 13,5g effective mass, but its a fact

/ Lars.
Grado were made for a much lighter arm than yours which is why so many have issues with Grado as compliance match is wrong. Your oil damping is helping as it is on my Kad damper but neither are perfect. Re measuring stereo separation the reason I have never bothered as it is impossible to do without quite expensive equipment properly. Yes we can get an idea of separation with a test record but without the perfect arm and I mean perfect and some very decent equipment it just cant be done accurately at home*. Which was my point earlier re separation of the Grado you mentioned, In today's world it is just to easy to check if claims are correct. False advertising is something nobody wants to fight in court so if a seller advertises 35db of separation it is very likely the separation is that or close in of course an optimal arm. Like the link I mentioned said though 20db is about the limit of what are brains can understand so more is basically pointless anyway..
Chris
And I am sure that you own the Ortofon test record yourself??? And it is a little bit fun when a lot of writers here and there swears that the better the CS, the wider the soundstage(when in fact it's the other way around). :wink:

*My CS measurment whit other cartridges confirms that it is pretty acurate. I have measured between 12Hz to more than 40Hz trough the years. And its really not so difficult since you can measure CS with only a test record containing a L and R sine wave at 1 KHz, and a voltmeter.

/ Lars
I had a test record back in the UK but it was taken by some scumbags along with a bunch of my records. I have never bothered again to get one as prefer listening to music than tones :D Also without decent measuring equipment results are a bit of a guess so mainly a bit of fun as you said. Thought about getting one for setting anti skate though, but clearly I am doing that right as looking under the microscope my stylus are wearing evenly. Also as we agreed on before 20db separation is at best the human brains limit so even carts like the AT3600 which are around 18db-20db which for a cart is not exactly high for all intents and purposes are as high in this respect that we can determine anyway.
Chris

Laila1
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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by Laila1 » 14 Dec 2018 23:56

:D , but both my AT3600(L) are 25dB+. :wink:

/ Lars
Ps Likes your contributions to the forum Chris Ds.

cafe latte
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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by cafe latte » 15 Dec 2018 01:53

Laila1 wrote:
14 Dec 2018 23:56
:D , but both my AT3600(L) are 25dB+. :wink:

/ Lars
Ps Likes your contributions to the forum Chris Ds.
Thanks :D
Re the AT3600, I will for sure be getting a few more and put them in reserve as I love mine.
Chris

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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by DeepEnd » 15 Dec 2018 13:30

I cannot believe that a staggering ten months after I originally asked the question that the post still appears on the first page of the "Cartridges and Preamps" section (even if it has gone off topic and onto the separation specs on certain cartridges).

I have to apologies for the delay in updating my findings but once I started down the slope of "trying out things" and trying to understand some of the things I was hearing things sort of snowballed a bit (well a lot) :shock: :shock: :shock:

So quick recap - I bought a second user Nagaoka MP-11 Boron that was being sold for spares as the tip was missing from the cantilever (£20 + postage). I then bought a MP-110 stylus (out of Japan as UK pricing on Nagaoka is "pants") so this gave me something similar to a MP-110 for around £60.

At the same time (out of Japan) I purchased a MP-200 stylus. Now I know that the body of the MP-11/110 is not the same spec as the MP150/200 but this gave me a "MP-180ish") for about £160 compared to a MP-200 in the UK at ~£340-£390 (over £300 if imported).

I also sent off my cartridge and stylus to ESCo to have an Ultra Low Mass Paratrace tip fitted to the existing Boron cantilever. Now the only Nag with anything other than an elliptical tip is the MP-500 (at over £600 weather imported or from the UK) so at the price of £120 to have the tip fitted and tested this seemed like a potential bargain. I thought this might be a "MP-250ish" due to the much better body in the MP500 [more on this later].

Suddenly realised I had nothing to "run in" the new styli with so purchased another MP-11B (£45+postage) for the body (but the tip looks fine) so I suppose I should add a further £15 to each of the above (unless I sell my now "spare" body).

Ran each of the Nagaoka new styli in for 20 hours and then did a quick measurement and got some very strange frequency response curves that had me diving through my other cartridges to measure these and these also gave strange results that did not seem to match the results from the mark one audio measurement equipment.
Perhaps the phono stage was showing it's age? [yes.... you can see where this is going can't you?] so pondered for a few weeks, listened to some records, my re-tipped MP11B(P) turned up, looked up loads of reviews tried to listen to a few phono stages without much success and in a fit of madness when ordering a heavy tungsten counter weight for my old Planar 3 added a Rothwell Rialto into the basket mainly because independent testing showed that it had a very accurate RIAA correction (up to about 100kHz) and I couldn't find any bad reviews and it was lower cost than a Slee Gold ERA V and had MC capability too.

The Rialto is the hardest thing to review (but it did show that the Phono Stage in the MF A3.2 is very good though) as it doesn't really have any sound of it's own as it just sort of "disappears" and you hear the music, musicianship and acoustics (real or studio-ed). Input capacitance is 150pF so a reasonably good match to most cartridges and I would recommend adding one to any shortlist you may have (mine is definitely staying).
Re-ran the curves with almost the same results as the internal phono stage – so pulling my hair out and testing my recorder (Olympus LS-14) using downloaded Pink/White noise, CD’s etc. and these came back with a flat response. The cartridges are sounding fine so what on earth is going on?

A fellow VE member billshurv pointed out that many test record’s Pink Noise tracks were, to use his phrase “pretty ropey!”. So having had a dig around I found I had another test record and low and behold we now had nice smooth frequency responses so nothing wrong with my ears or internal phono stage after all!! It did show that the Rialto is definitely more accurate than the internal phono stage above 15kHz but only by about a db or so.

So tried to do a quick comparison for other people to see the difference between the tips but the compression used by YouTube makes it much, much harder to spot the differences.

So I will try and give my impressions:-
The MP11B/110 at £60-£75 is quite something at that price range and a major step above my Elys with an excellent bass responses, good dynamics and a feeling of excitement and the acoustics and I don’t think many would be disappointed with purchasing one. However when things get complex, especially with massed classical music, it's excitement tends to lose control a little bit and it hardens up and details get lost. Trouble is in the UK the price seems to have gone up towards £140 which is harder to justify against say, for example, the new AT VM95EN/ML or VM530EN at £99-£149.

The MP11B, with its original stylus and/or the MP200 stylus is a MASSIVE step in refinement with improved control over the full frequency response and the details in complex/massed passages are fully available with no hardening up at all. The bass seems a little less full but I don’t think it is really. It’s just better controlled with faster starts and stops with no overhang. It does things incredibly well and the only downside is that it seems to have lost some of the excitement in the process and it can sound overly “polite” which might work really well with some speakers but not all. At the £160-£175 level for my MP-180ish its highly recommended but at £300+ for a full MP-200 there are the cartridges like the Goldring 1042 to compete with making it a more difficult decision.

Well then we come to my “MP-250ish” hybrid MP11B/Paratrace………….this takes all the good from the MP-180/200 and adds back the excitement, bass level adds even better imaging and sound stage width and height and even more “sparkle” at the top end (neither the MP110 or 200 are bad in this respect in the first place)and is even more “musical” and reduces the good sibilance levels even lower. At ~£150 it is hard to describe just what value for money this represents and just how good a performer it is overall… highly, highly addictive.

The question that then occurs is “just how much difference does the body make?” [again you can guess where this is going can’t you?]. So I am now the proud owner of a second user MP-30!! Unfortunately the heavier body and higher compliance of the MP-30 stylus takes the resonance a bit lower than I would like BUT comparing the MP11B/P with the original stylus on the MP30 body I would consider the Paratraced stylus to be a “MP450ish” and comparing the MP30 and MP11B body/Paratrace I now consider the hybrid to be a “MP-400ish” rather than a “MP250ish” Yes it really is that good.
So having spent a lot more than originally intended I can say “Nagaoka are very very good cartridges but can be made even better”.

So to save other VE members from spending oodles of money and if you are looking for a long term partner for your deck then YES buy a MP-110 enjoy it and when the stylus is worn out then buy a MP200 stylus and enjoy the improvements and when that is worn out have it re-tipped by ESCo. Yes at the end of it you will have spent almost as much as a just buying a new MP-200 but you will have had a lot of enjoyment, three times the life of a single stylus and end up with something better at the end. If you can find a MP-11 Boron at the right price just go for the re-tip as soon as possible.

I know that I should have stopped at that point but having a cartridge that is probably worth £400-£500 with a phono stage of the £380 level it made the £187.50 I paid for my Planar 3 in 1987 look a bit sad (yes it’s now got VTA adjustment, a Ruby ball and a metal sub-platter) I started looking at the new Planar 6 rather than add a new motor, PSU braces etc. to my old deck but someone then put their ex-demo RP8 up for sale at the price of a new Planar 6 so that fell in my shopping basket as well.

The MP-11B/P is now sat on the RP8 but the performance of each stylus has taken a significant step up and all the differences between the tips has been magnified even further. So a RP8 with an entry level cartridge over a lower cost deck with a better cartridge would be another of my recommendations.

I have a friend who has a much better system than mine and has been highly amused by my ”playing” with different styli etc. has heard my system many, many times with different cartridges but came round to hear the MP11B/P, RP8 via the Rialto. I played one of his favourite tracks from the 80’s – Herb Alpert’s “8 Ball” from the Wild Romance album. He looked straight at me and said “F#####g h#ll that sounds good”.

Make your own mind up (96/24bit)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sce0oq12sz2e5 ... 1.wav?dl=0

cafe latte
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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by cafe latte » 16 Dec 2018 01:21

DeepEnd wrote:
15 Dec 2018 13:30
I cannot believe that a staggering ten months after I originally asked the question that the post still appears on the first page of the "Cartridges and Preamps" section (even if it has gone off topic and onto the separation specs on certain cartridges).

I have to apologies for the delay in updating my findings but once I started down the slope of "trying out things" and trying to understand some of the things I was hearing things sort of snowballed a bit (well a lot) :shock: :shock: :shock:

So quick recap - I bought a second user Nagaoka MP-11 Boron that was being sold for spares as the tip was missing from the cantilever (£20 + postage). I then bought a MP-110 stylus (out of Japan as UK pricing on Nagaoka is "pants") so this gave me something similar to a MP-110 for around £60.

At the same time (out of Japan) I purchased a MP-200 stylus. Now I know that the body of the MP-11/110 is not the same spec as the MP150/200 but this gave me a "MP-180ish") for about £160 compared to a MP-200 in the UK at ~£340-£390 (over £300 if imported).

I also sent off my cartridge and stylus to ESCo to have an Ultra Low Mass Paratrace tip fitted to the existing Boron cantilever. Now the only Nag with anything other than an elliptical tip is the MP-500 (at over £600 weather imported or from the UK) so at the price of £120 to have the tip fitted and tested this seemed like a potential bargain. I thought this might be a "MP-250ish" due to the much better body in the MP500 [more on this later].

Suddenly realised I had nothing to "run in" the new styli with so purchased another MP-11B (£45+postage) for the body (but the tip looks fine) so I suppose I should add a further £15 to each of the above (unless I sell my now "spare" body).

Ran each of the Nagaoka new styli in for 20 hours and then did a quick measurement and got some very strange frequency response curves that had me diving through my other cartridges to measure these and these also gave strange results that did not seem to match the results from the mark one audio measurement equipment.
Perhaps the phono stage was showing it's age? [yes.... you can see where this is going can't you?] so pondered for a few weeks, listened to some records, my re-tipped MP11B(P) turned up, looked up loads of reviews tried to listen to a few phono stages without much success and in a fit of madness when ordering a heavy tungsten counter weight for my old Planar 3 added a Rothwell Rialto into the basket mainly because independent testing showed that it had a very accurate RIAA correction (up to about 100kHz) and I couldn't find any bad reviews and it was lower cost than a Slee Gold ERA V and had MC capability too.

The Rialto is the hardest thing to review (but it did show that the Phono Stage in the MF A3.2 is very good though) as it doesn't really have any sound of it's own as it just sort of "disappears" and you hear the music, musicianship and acoustics (real or studio-ed). Input capacitance is 150pF so a reasonably good match to most cartridges and I would recommend adding one to any shortlist you may have (mine is definitely staying).
Re-ran the curves with almost the same results as the internal phono stage – so pulling my hair out and testing my recorder (Olympus LS-14) using downloaded Pink/White noise, CD’s etc. and these came back with a flat response. The cartridges are sounding fine so what on earth is going on?

A fellow VE member billshurv pointed out that many test record’s Pink Noise tracks were, to use his phrase “pretty ropey!”. So having had a dig around I found I had another test record and low and behold we now had nice smooth frequency responses so nothing wrong with my ears or internal phono stage after all!! It did show that the Rialto is definitely more accurate than the internal phono stage above 15kHz but only by about a db or so.

So tried to do a quick comparison for other people to see the difference between the tips but the compression used by YouTube makes it much, much harder to spot the differences.

So I will try and give my impressions:-
The MP11B/110 at £60-£75 is quite something at that price range and a major step above my Elys with an excellent bass responses, good dynamics and a feeling of excitement and the acoustics and I don’t think many would be disappointed with purchasing one. However when things get complex, especially with massed classical music, it's excitement tends to lose control a little bit and it hardens up and details get lost. Trouble is in the UK the price seems to have gone up towards £140 which is harder to justify against say, for example, the new AT VM95EN/ML or VM530EN at £99-£149.

The MP11B, with its original stylus and/or the MP200 stylus is a MASSIVE step in refinement with improved control over the full frequency response and the details in complex/massed passages are fully available with no hardening up at all. The bass seems a little less full but I don’t think it is really. It’s just better controlled with faster starts and stops with no overhang. It does things incredibly well and the only downside is that it seems to have lost some of the excitement in the process and it can sound overly “polite” which might work really well with some speakers but not all. At the £160-£175 level for my MP-180ish its highly recommended but at £300+ for a full MP-200 there are the cartridges like the Goldring 1042 to compete with making it a more difficult decision.

Well then we come to my “MP-250ish” hybrid MP11B/Paratrace………….this takes all the good from the MP-180/200 and adds back the excitement, bass level adds even better imaging and sound stage width and height and even more “sparkle” at the top end (neither the MP110 or 200 are bad in this respect in the first place)and is even more “musical” and reduces the good sibilance levels even lower. At ~£150 it is hard to describe just what value for money this represents and just how good a performer it is overall… highly, highly addictive.

The question that then occurs is “just how much difference does the body make?” [again you can guess where this is going can’t you?]. So I am now the proud owner of a second user MP-30!! Unfortunately the heavier body and higher compliance of the MP-30 stylus takes the resonance a bit lower than I would like BUT comparing the MP11B/P with the original stylus on the MP30 body I would consider the Paratraced stylus to be a “MP450ish” and comparing the MP30 and MP11B body/Paratrace I now consider the hybrid to be a “MP-400ish” rather than a “MP250ish” Yes it really is that good.
So having spent a lot more than originally intended I can say “Nagaoka are very very good cartridges but can be made even better”.

So to save other VE members from spending oodles of money and if you are looking for a long term partner for your deck then YES buy a MP-110 enjoy it and when the stylus is worn out then buy a MP200 stylus and enjoy the improvements and when that is worn out have it re-tipped by ESCo. Yes at the end of it you will have spent almost as much as a just buying a new MP-200 but you will have had a lot of enjoyment, three times the life of a single stylus and end up with something better at the end. If you can find a MP-11 Boron at the right price just go for the re-tip as soon as possible.

I know that I should have stopped at that point but having a cartridge that is probably worth £400-£500 with a phono stage of the £380 level it made the £187.50 I paid for my Planar 3 in 1987 look a bit sad (yes it’s now got VTA adjustment, a Ruby ball and a metal sub-platter) I started looking at the new Planar 6 rather than add a new motor, PSU braces etc. to my old deck but someone then put their ex-demo RP8 up for sale at the price of a new Planar 6 so that fell in my shopping basket as well.

The MP-11B/P is now sat on the RP8 but the performance of each stylus has taken a significant step up and all the differences between the tips has been magnified even further. So a RP8 with an entry level cartridge over a lower cost deck with a better cartridge would be another of my recommendations.

I have a friend who has a much better system than mine and has been highly amused by my ”playing” with different styli etc. has heard my system many, many times with different cartridges but came round to hear the MP11B/P, RP8 via the Rialto. I played one of his favourite tracks from the 80’s – Herb Alpert’s “8 Ball” from the Wild Romance album. He looked straight at me and said “F#####g h#ll that sounds good”.

Make your own mind up (96/24bit)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sce0oq12sz2e5 ... 1.wav?dl=0
Unless they have gone up in price big time (Mp-500) they should not cost you 600 pounds imported. I bought mine direct from Japan a few years back and it was under 400 dollars Australian at the time about 350 dollar US.
Chris

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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by DeepEnd » 16 Dec 2018 11:34

cafe latte wrote:
16 Dec 2018 01:21

Unless they have gone up in price big time (Mp-500) they should not cost you 600 pounds imported. I bought mine direct from Japan a few years back and it was under 400 dollars Australian at the time about 350 dollar US.
Chris

I believe they have gone up considerably over the last three years and a quick check of the 5 lowest priced MP-500 from Japan on a famous auction site range from US $645 - $698 (£514-£556) and after those they are above $700. By the time you add just our VAT (Sales Tax) at 20% never mind any duty or handling charges all of these are over £600 landed compared to the UK price of £649-£669 and Euopean pricing of €776.50.

If you can find me a new MP-500 for only $350 I will pay you a $100 finders fee. At that price I would have just bought one rather than go through all the testing I have done. I also considered a Garrot P77i but the exchange rate for the Pound dropped so far this also went from just over £360 landed to £425+ even though the price stayed the same at AUD 600.

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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by cafe latte » 16 Dec 2018 12:12

DeepEnd wrote:
16 Dec 2018 11:34
cafe latte wrote:
16 Dec 2018 01:21

Unless they have gone up in price big time (Mp-500) they should not cost you 600 pounds imported. I bought mine direct from Japan a few years back and it was under 400 dollars Australian at the time about 350 dollar US.
Chris

I believe they have gone up considerably over the last three years and a quick check of the 5 lowest priced MP-500 from Japan on a famous auction site range from US $645 - $698 (£514-£556) and after those they are above $700. By the time you add just our VAT (Sales Tax) at 20% never mind any duty or handling charges all of these are over £600 landed compared to the UK price of £649-£669 and Euopean pricing of €776.50.

If you can find me a new MP-500 for only $350 I will pay you a $100 finders fee. At that price I would have just bought one rather than go through all the testing I have done. I also considered a Garrot P77i but the exchange rate for the Pound dropped so far this also went from just over £360 landed to £425+ even though the price stayed the same at AUD 600.
Wow they are not worth that. I dont have an account anymore with the company I got mine off and I dont remember where from, but these prices are huge. If I have a bit of time I will have a look and see if I can find the link, but if I do not interested in finders fee just happy to get the knowledge out there :D
Chris

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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by patient_ot » 16 Dec 2018 21:01

I think the current price of the MP-500 is the main reason it's not more popular. Even the MP-200 and 300 are very expensive compared to the competition here in the U.S. The Paratrace'd Nagaoka sounds like an amazing bargain by comparison.

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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by octavius » 18 Dec 2018 08:29

I think the prices were more better 3 or 4 years ago than now!! They should have more from selling if they stay with previous prices... :(:(

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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by T68 » 18 Dec 2018 18:37

I saw guy selling a Nagaoka M10 here in Sweden on an auction site. What kind of cartridge is that (looks like old)? Any good? Which stylus will fit?

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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by DeepEnd » 19 Dec 2018 21:26

The Nagaoka MP10 is the model before the current MP100, the bodies of the MP10 and MP11 are the same (as are the MP100 and MP110).

The current range of styli (JN-P100, 110, 150 and 200) all fit the older bodies. There are some special styli for 78’s and pre-microgroove styli also available.

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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by hedgehog35 » 19 Dec 2018 21:38

DeepEnd wrote:
15 Dec 2018 13:30

The MP11B, with its original stylus and/or the MP200 stylus is a MASSIVE step in refinement with improved control over the full frequency response and the details in complex/massed passages are fully available with no hardening up at all. The bass seems a little less full but I don’t think it is really. It’s just better controlled with faster starts and stops with no overhang. It does things incredibly well and the only downside is that it seems to have lost some of the excitement in the process and it can sound overly “polite” which might work really well with some speakers but not all. At the £160-£175 level for my MP-180ish its highly recommended but at £300+ for a full MP-200 there are the cartridges like the Goldring 1042 to compete with making it a more difficult decision.

So having spent a lot more than originally intended I can say “Nagaoka are very very good cartridges but can be made even better”.

I know that I should have stopped at that point but having a cartridge that is probably worth £400-£500 with a phono stage of the £380 level it made the £187.50 I paid for my Planar 3 in 1987 look a bit sad (yes it’s now got VTA adjustment, a Ruby ball and a metal sub-platter) I started looking at the new Planar 6 rather than add a new motor, PSU braces etc. to my old deck but someone then put their ex-demo RP8 up for sale at the price of a new Planar 6 so that fell in my shopping basket as well.

The MP-11B/P is now sat on the RP8 but the performance of each stylus has taken a significant step up and all the differences between the tips has been magnified even further. So a RP8 with an entry level cartridge over a lower cost deck with a better cartridge would be another of my recommendations.

You should never be surprised at the ability of forum members to spin out a thread! (no pun intended)

Great to hear of your experiences and experiments with your Nagaoka cartridges. I too had a MP10 on my Rega 3 many, many years ago and remembered it fondly. This encouraged me to try Nagaoka cartridges recently with better arms and decks.

I think that the Nagaoka MP100 to 200 all share the same body. The specs. and weights are certainly the same. Only the MP300 and 500 have a different body with a bolt securing the stylus.
I initially bought the MP150 and used with my SME/Gyrodec, replaced now with Technics 1200GR. I too was very impressed and upgraded quite quickly with 200 stylus. Like you, I found that sounded even better. I would not worry about competition from Goldring 1042 - I have one and like it, but I think the MP200 is even better and is a more balanced cartridge. I sold my Ortofon 2M black because I think the Nagaoka is better - and a lot cheaper. By the way, I bought the MP200 stylus from Japan and it cost just over £100 new - absolute bargain.

After 50 years, and quite a few turntables, I completely agree - I would spend as much as I could afford on a good turntable and arm and match it with a cheaper, but good cartridge. An expensive cartridge in a cheaper deck does not sound so good to my ears.
Glad you like the new Regas - I borrowed a new Planar 6 for a couple of days - a huge leap over my old trusty planar 3. I didn't buy because I could not get rid of a ground loop hum. Very pleased with my Technics.
Interesting to hear about re-tipping cartridge as this is something I would maybe do in the future.
One last question, and I'm sure it has been discussed before - What do you think of the ridiculously low stylus life published by Nagaoka for all their cartridges? I have asked a couple of dealers and they both said that had not come across any modern low mass cartridge that would have a stylus life of 200 hours. Both suggested at least 600 - 1000 hours and maybe longer. I have however, never come across a definitive answer to this. Does anyone know?
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DeepEnd
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Re: Just how good are Nagaoka cartridges?

Post by DeepEnd » 20 Dec 2018 12:01

hedgehog35 wrote:
19 Dec 2018 21:38

I think that the Nagaoka MP100 to 200 all share the same body. The specs. and weights are certainly the same. Only the MP300 and 500 have a different body with a bolt securing the stylus.

What do you think of the ridiculously low stylus life published by Nagaoka for all their cartridges? I have asked a couple of dealers and they both said that had not come across any modern low mass cartridge that would have a stylus life of 200 hours. Both suggested at least 600 - 1000 hours and maybe longer. I have however, never come across a definitive answer to this. Does anyone know?
It takes a bit of digging and comparing the catalogues of both the MP-xx and MP-xxx ranges to work it out but

The MP10/11 and MP100/110 have a frame of injection moulded ABS and a magnetic circuit of a single lamination.
The MP15/20 and MP150/200 have a frame of injection moulded PPS and a magnetic circuit of two laminations
The MP30 and MP300 have a frame of aluminium and a magnetic circuit of two laminations
The MP50 and MP500 have a frame of aluminium and a magnetic circuit of three laminations

So there are 4 bodies types not 2 in each range.

With regard to tip life then it rather depends on the manufacturers perception of what "warn" is (some quote when distorion gets above a certain level - which is not a lot of use to most users!!). However ellipticals are known to wear quicker than conical or line contact types but ESCo advised that their Paratrace tip should be inspected at about 500 hours to determine how much longer it should be used which they would expect to be in the 700-1300 hour range in total. I suspose an inspection at 200-250 hours seems rather low but perhaps not impossible but the actual tip life I would expect to be greater.

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