hi fi test record

the thin end of the wedge
Budddhacide
senior member
senior member
Posts: 496
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 03:08

hi fi test record

Post by Budddhacide » 18 Dec 2017 01:03

Hi all. I installed a Dynavector 20x2 this weekend. I thought it was a pretty easy install intitially, and I was most concerned with the frequency resonance test, as my arm needed a weight to get it in normal range. Anyway, that much is fine. But I can't seem to get one or two things right and just want to know how much I should care given my equipment. I have an integrated tube amp, which may be part of the problem.

Anyway, I could never get my 2m black to track the 16db bias test, and I eventually stopped caring because it sounded good. I had some higher expectations from the 20x2, but alas,no - it breaks up in the right channel no matter what I do. But again, not too concerned with that. But what I am a bit concerned about is that it can't track the last track on the second side unless I contort the cart to a ridiculous angle or add a lot of extra weight.This also breaks up in the right channel. I've been at this now for 3 days. The other 2 tracking tests aren't a problem, but the last won't cooperate.

So i am getting distortion in the right channel consistently. I can't add any more antiskate. I readjusted the azimuth (using the project bubble level?). Made sure the table and platter were completely level. VTA is just the teeniest bit tail down, but adjusting it does not seem to matter much. Ive been digitally managing the tracking force at 2g (middle of recommended range).

I am also getting crosstalk (currently approx the same on both sides. Also, the channels don't fully cancel each other on the mono test.

I've been at this point before, and I know some of the answer is to just try to enjoy the music. But at the same time I'd like to know if there is anything I can improve. So...

1) how much crosstalk is normal given my amp and other factors.

2) should the 20x2 be easily able to track the 16db track (the one before the torture track?

3) what could I be doing wrong to cause this distortion in the right channel? Is this a "sweetspot" issue, and I just haven't hit it yet?

Thanks.

nat
long player
long player
Posts: 3816
Joined: 07 Nov 2002 20:05

Re: hi fi test record

Post by nat » 18 Dec 2017 01:53

I suspect that your arm and cartridge aren't going to track the cannon blasts on TelArc's 1812. But if, on most records, it sounds good to you, does that matter that much?
I'd be alarmed if I had to turn the antiskating up to the maximum in the absence of signs of concrete issues on realistically modulated tracks.

Budddhacide
senior member
senior member
Posts: 496
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 03:08

Re: hi fi test record

Post by Budddhacide » 18 Dec 2017 02:06

:) Yeah I know, I just want to get my money's worth. My antiskate is the string one. There are only 3 settings - which, all else equal, is fine. Its set as per Pro-ject's instruction for 2 gram tracking force.

LD100
senior member
senior member
United States of America
Posts: 702
Joined: 28 Mar 2014 08:49
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: hi fi test record

Post by LD100 » 18 Dec 2017 11:47

Anti skate is merely an approximation as it changes with the amplitude of the grove modulation. Do not worry about making it more than the tracking force if that sounds better.

Do not worry about setting the tracking force at 2.2 grams if it sounds better. Just do not exceed the manufacturers recommendations.

Final adjustments are best done by ear. =D>
Do not worry if your tone arm/cartridge combination can't track all the highly modulated bands on your test records.
Worry about how your favorite music records sound. :D

a.wayne
broken record
Posts: 310
Joined: 01 Dec 2012 01:50

Re: hi fi test record

Post by a.wayne » 18 Dec 2017 15:05

Budddhacide wrote:Hi all. I installed a Dynavector 20x2 this weekend. I thought it was a pretty easy install intitially, and I was most concerned with the frequency resonance test, as my arm needed a weight to get it in normal range. Anyway, that much is fine. But I can't seem to get one or two things right and just want to know how much I should care given my equipment. I have an integrated tube amp, which may be part of the problem.

Anyway, I could never get my 2m black to track the 16db bias test, and I eventually stopped caring because it sounded good. I had some higher expectations from the 20x2, but alas,no - it breaks up in the right channel no matter what I do. But again, not too concerned with that. But what I am a bit concerned about is that it can't track the last track on the second side unless I contort the cart to a ridiculous angle or add a lot of extra weight.This also breaks up in the right channel. I've been at this now for 3 days. The other 2 tracking tests aren't a problem, but the last won't cooperate.

So i am getting distortion in the right channel consistently. I can't add any more antiskate. I readjusted the azimuth (using the project bubble level?). Made sure the table and platter were completely level. VTA is just the teeniest bit tail down, but adjusting it does not seem to matter much. Ive been digitally managing the tracking force at 2g (middle of recommended range).

I am also getting crosstalk (currently approx the same on both sides. Also, the channels don't fully cancel each other on the mono test.

I've been at this point before, and I know some of the answer is to just try to enjoy the music. But at the same time I'd like to know if there is anything I can improve. So...

1) how much crosstalk is normal given my amp and other factors.

2) should the 20x2 be easily able to track the 16db track (the one before the torture track?

3) what could I be doing wrong to cause this distortion in the right channel? Is this a "sweetspot" issue, and I just haven't hit it yet?

Thanks.

I would suggest you try this voltage test for azimuth , or at the very least check you left to right voltage balance with your test LP.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/cr ... uth-part-2

BTW you may need to increase VTF to reduce distortion and then adjust antiskate accordingly ...

Budddhacide
senior member
senior member
Posts: 496
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 03:08

Re: hi fi test record

Post by Budddhacide » 18 Dec 2017 19:47

Thanks all. I need to give myself some distance from my table today. I have a bad back and this morning I could barely get out of bed and had to miss work. I'll go back to it after I take some time to recover, lol.

Sunwire
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 1530
Joined: 07 Oct 2004 21:54
Location: New York

Re: hi fi test record

Post by Sunwire » 18 Dec 2017 19:55

I almost always run my cartridges at the maximum recommended VTF, or slightly below, hoping to minimize the chance of mistracking.

analogaudio
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 4652
Joined: 06 Feb 2007 23:58
Location: Monroe NY USA

Re: hi fi test record

Post by analogaudio » 18 Dec 2017 20:09

Some of the test discs have been made with anti-skate tracks that are beyond the capabilities of most if not all carts at normal tracking forces. For example the HiFiNews disc identifies their highest level track as a "torture test". I wouldn't be too concerned about breakup with these excessively high level test tracks, those levels are not found on normal discs.

Budddhacide
senior member
senior member
Posts: 496
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 03:08

Re: hi fi test record

Post by Budddhacide » 19 Dec 2017 01:44

Hi Ted. I'm not concerned so much with those tracks. Mostly the inner groove tracking error. But I'm also curious about the rest of it.

Sunwire
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 1530
Joined: 07 Oct 2004 21:54
Location: New York

Re: hi fi test record

Post by Sunwire » 19 Dec 2017 03:46

Upon re-reading your post, I think if I was you, I'd return the cartridge, for sure.
I don't recall ever having trouble tracking the last band on Side Two with any cartridge. Certainly not with any of my higher end cartridges. And none of mine are even close to a 20X2 in price.
And if the mono test is not cancelling, that's not good, either.
Too much money for that cartridge to have performance like that.

I'm assuming there is no problem with the tonearm, but that is certainly worth checking out.
If you balance the arm (0 VTF), does it move totally smoothly from side to side in response to changes in the anti-skating?

TA

Re: hi fi test record

Post by TA » 19 Dec 2017 23:15

A faulty cartridge. Replace.

Budddhacide
senior member
senior member
Posts: 496
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 03:08

Re: hi fi test record

Post by Budddhacide » 20 Dec 2017 01:02

Let me ask though, given that there is cross talk would the mono test fully cancel? It cancels much of the signal just not totally, which I assume is normal if there is otherwise cross talk. I never had the option to test it until recently.

I don't think I'm going to return it. Its more likely I flubbed something up ( these things never go easy for me, lol). I'm going to keep trying with it when my my back will let me and my new bubble level comes. I'm not sure the azimuth is 100% correct, but hopefully will soon.

Ps tonearm levels ok.

wojo58
member
member
Posts: 241
Joined: 16 Jan 2017 23:58
Location: Northern Illnois

Re: hi fi test record

Post by wojo58 » 28 Dec 2017 18:00

I have a question about the resonance test .....


My cartridge indeed starts to dance during this track, but what am I looking for? How do I know what frequency is causing the resonance, or is the fact that it is dancing/vibrating (somewhere in the sweep) the only important thing?

Anyone else sit there and wait for the next test track to play, and wondering why it's taking so long? #-o

noisefreq
senior member
senior member
United States of America
Posts: 735
Joined: 20 Feb 2013 21:04
Location: Independence

Re: hi fi test record

Post by noisefreq » 28 Dec 2017 18:10

The movement of the tonearm is the point of the resonant frequency of your cartridge and tonearm combo.

Hopefully it's near 10Hz.

wojo58
member
member
Posts: 241
Joined: 16 Jan 2017 23:58
Location: Northern Illnois

Re: hi fi test record

Post by wojo58 » 28 Dec 2017 18:26

Sorry, I guess that's my point/question: How do I determine the exact frequency causing the resonance?

Post Reply