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Grado Cartrdges

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Grado Cartrdges

Postby TD 166 MKII » 03 Dec 2017 19:09

Just wondering if anyone can explain to me how you get a Grabo Black and Green and Blue and Red and Silver and Gold when the Spec's are the same for every model. If you open anyone from Black to Gold it is the spec's, they even give the same spec's if you look at just the Styles spec's. I am not knocking them as I just picked up a Green, I know it most likely will not be the same as my MP-11-B but have to keep on a budget. :?:
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby gofar99 » 03 Dec 2017 22:22

Hi The differences are mostly in the stylus used. Each "upgrade" model comes with a better stylus. However the stylus are interchangeable. You can swap them around. Buy a green and use a silver or gold stylus in it. Supposedly the top ones (gold) are selected for better performance from the silver line. I have used several (G+, M+, Gold) and have done the stylus swap as needed. Not everyone likes the Grado sound so it may be better to get one of the low or mid range ones before putting out the cash for the top ones.
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby TD 166 MKII » 04 Dec 2017 02:19

I understand that the stylus are better at each level but as they changed should not the Spec's change also?
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby cafe latte » 04 Dec 2017 13:45

My opinion for what it is worth, the lower end Grado (due to cantlever and stylus) promise lots but no cigar, you get great bass, but a bit bloated and top end is muted. The rest is great, but you just want the bottom tidied up and a bit better tops.. I went up the range to get it and with a great stylus and cantilever Grado does what I hoped when I first heard one. My opinion now is get a cheap one and get it retipped, I an thinking to send my redundant Platinum wood off for a a new stylus, hopefully it will sing like my new Grado does..
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby patient_ot » 05 Dec 2017 22:16

There is a hell of a lot that Grado does not share with the consumer re: cartridge specs, especially in the Prestige line. That alone is a big reason I won't buy their products. I would love to see someone bench test and dissect their entire Prestige line and call them on their B.S.
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby a.wayne » 06 Dec 2017 00:54

Only love for Grado , why not test all the others too and call everyone on their BS ....
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby gofar99 » 06 Dec 2017 03:46

Hi, Hummm... If everyone liked chocolate ice cream then the folks selling vanilla would be SOL. I also have a Woodie Grado and it is just fine. It does not work in every combination of tonearms and turntables. It can be a bit particular to set up, but then my Dynavector Karat is worse. Grado may not desire to tell everyone what they do inside their cartridges, but they must be doing something right as they have been selling them for a very long time. For a relatively small company you can't stay in business that long if there is no market for your stuff. I grant that the Grado sound is not to everyone's liking, but then I am quite sure that some folks do. It is part of the reason that there are numerous cartridge companies. There is bound to be something for everyone. My suggestion is if you don't like their product...don't buy it. If you already did then sell it. Pretty simple solutions IMO.
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby H. callahan » 06 Dec 2017 06:39

I have literature here being some years old and there are some differences between black to platinum. Grado at least some years ago did state that the cartridges are selected. So all Greens were said to be selected from the Blacks - only 10% of the Blacks make it to the Green selection, i think - and the Greens are selected to the Blues and so on.
This is what my literature says:

----------------Black------Green----Blue------Red------Silver-----Gold-----Platinum


Frequ.R._____10-50k____10-50k___10-55k____10-55k___10-60k_____10-60k___10-60k

Chan.Sep.___>30DB____>30DB___>30DB_____>30DB___>35DB______>35DB___>40DB

Cahn.Bal.____<2DB_____<1DB____<2DB______<1DB____<2DB_______<1DB___<0.5DB

I had to fill in the dashes, because the software running this side seems to eat blanks. And it doesn´t even get the dashes right, it looks good as i write it, but in preview its messy - have fun finding the collum.

The rest of the specs appears to be the same. At least there is no special note on the styluses - but Grado at least did mention that the better models do have a better cantilever also having fewer moving mass, i think the moving mass of a Silver is like 10% reduced in comparison to a Red.
...

The problem now with the specs is that some sellers do confuse them. For example there was one seller claiming all Grados from Black-Gold having channel separation of 35DB - while another seller did claim Grados from Black-Gold having 25DB channel separation only. This stuck in my head as i bought a Gold for having a rather high channel separation, which is 35DB.
...

In addition to that some aspects of a cartridge are related to the cartridge body. A Black surely will perform better having a Silver stylus for example, but things like channel separation and i think frequency range also are related to how precise the coils in the cartridge-body are positioned.
This should mean that a Black having a Silver stylus will track better as the Silver stylus is said to have fewer moving mass and a better cantilever, but channel separation and frequency range still should correspond to a Black.
This also should explain why they select the Blues from the Greens for example, as they check for frequency range - and the cartridge having FR of 10-55k has its coils more precise positioned than the cartridge having FR 10-50k only.

Therefore the bodys from Black-Platinum shouldn´t be alike.
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby cafe latte » 06 Dec 2017 08:56

H. callahan wrote:I have literature here being some years old and there are some differences between black to platinum. Grado at least some years ago did state that the cartridges are selected. So all Greens were said to be selected from the Blacks - only 10% of the Blacks make it to the Green selection, i think - and the Greens are selected to the Blues and so on.
This is what my literature says:

----------------Black------Green----Blue------Red------Silver-----Gold-----Platinum


Frequ.R._____10-50k____10-50k___10-55k____10-55k___10-60k_____10-60k___10-60k

Chan.Sep.___>30DB____>30DB___>30DB_____>30DB___>35DB______>35DB___>40DB

Cahn.Bal.____<2DB_____<1DB____<2DB______<1DB____<2DB_______<1DB___<0.5DB

I had to fill in the dashes, because the software running this side seems to eat blanks. And it doesn´t even get the dashes right, it looks good as i write it, but in preview its messy - have fun finding the collum.

The rest of the specs appears to be the same. At least there is no special note on the styluses - but Grado at least did mention that the better models do have a better cantilever also having fewer moving mass, i think the moving mass of a Silver is like 10% reduced in comparison to a Red.
...

The problem now with the specs is that some sellers do confuse them. For example there was one seller claiming all Grados from Black-Gold having channel separation of 35DB - while another seller did claim Grados from Black-Gold having 25DB channel separation only. This stuck in my head as i bought a Gold for having a rather high channel separation, which is 35DB.
...

In addition to that some aspects of a cartridge are related to the cartridge body. A Black surely will perform better having a Silver stylus for example, but things like channel separation and i think frequency range also are related to how precise the coils in the cartridge-body are positioned.
This should mean that a Black having a Silver stylus will track better as the Silver stylus is said to have fewer moving mass and a better cantilever, but channel separation and frequency range still should correspond to a Black.
This also should explain why they select the Blues from the Greens for example, as they check for frequency range - and the cartridge having FR of 10-55k has its coils more precise positioned than the cartridge having FR 10-50k only.

Therefore the bodys from Black-Platinum shouldn´t be alike.

Frequency range is likely stylus profile related.
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby H. callahan » 07 Dec 2017 05:20

And moving mass.

But as pretty much every tt+cartridge more or less is vibrating during playback, some missalingment between coils and (usually) mangets should occur. This *could* affect frequency range negatively - and if the coils are positioned more precise, due to being an upper level body, this *could* increase frequency range as the still occuring vibrations can´t missaling the coils+mangets that much any more, because coils+mangets are alignet at higher precision. Especially because vibrations on HF are faster/having more energy than on LF - therefore making the cartridge vibrate more.

But that´s just a theory of mine.
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby cafe latte » 07 Dec 2017 12:28

H. callahan wrote:And moving mass.

But as pretty much every tt+cartridge more or less is vibrating during playback, some missalingment between coils and (usually) mangets should occur. This *could* affect frequency range negatively - and if the coils are positioned more precise, due to being an upper level body, this *could* increase frequency range as the still occuring vibrations can´t missaling the coils+mangets that much any more, because coils+mangets are alignet at higher precision. Especially because vibrations on HF are faster/having more energy than on LF - therefore making the cartridge vibrate more.

But that´s just a theory of mine.

All good but the increased frequency specs will be stylus related.
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby Boltman92124 » 07 Dec 2017 19:00

TD 166 MKII wrote:Just wondering if anyone can explain to me how you get a Grabo Black and Green and Blue and Red and Silver and Gold when the Spec's are the same for every model. If you open anyone from Black to Gold it is the spec's, they even give the same spec's if you look at just the Styles spec's. I am not knocking them as I just picked up a Green, I know it most likely will not be the same as my MP-11-B but have to keep on a budget. :?:


So the Green is a hand selected version of Black, which performs better. Same lot of carts, but the best of the lot get labeled one color up. Same with the other colors moving up...is the way I understand it from reading.

How do you like the Green? I was thinking about getting one as my first Grado. Any hum?
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Re: Grado Cartrdges

Postby H. callahan » 08 Dec 2017 11:25

@cafe latte: Ok.

@Boltman92124: I was able to find some website i saved to my hdd some years ago here is an excerpt regarding the differences between cartridges:

"The Grado Black cartridge and Grado Green cartridge use a three piece cantilever system coupled to an elliptical diamond mounted on a brass bush. The Grado Black cartridge uses the same mechanical components as Grado Green cartridge but is manufactured to a higher engineering tolerance resulting in an finer and extended performance.

The Grado Blue cartridge and Grado Red cartridge use an enhanced four piece cantilever system coupled to a specially designed elliptical diamond mounted on a brass bush. The Grado Blue cartridge uses the same mechanical components as Grado Red cartridge but is manufactured to a higher engineering tolerance resulting in a superior performance.

The Grado Silver cartridge and Grado Gold cartridge use a four piece OTL cantilever system, ultra-high purity long crystal oxygen free copper wire in the coils and Grado's specially designed elliptical diamond mounted on a brass bushing. The Grado Gold cartridge is selected from the Grado Silver cartridge production run and meets higher test specifications thus resulting in superior performance. Approximately 5% of the production run will meet these standards and become Grado Gold cartridges."

It only says that the Gold is selected from the Silvers, but on a different german literature they also state that the Green is selected from the Blacks, and Reds from Blues.
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