Beogram needs new belt

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Stevelocks3
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Beogram needs new belt

Post by Stevelocks3 » 17 Oct 2017 21:35

I posted on Sept 3rd but had no replies so will try again. A Beogram 4002 needs a new belt but I cannot see how to remove the original because the drive spindle is tucked under the top-plate with almost no clearance. Can someone advise me? There are also more details on my first post.
Steve

Coffee Phil
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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Coffee Phil » 17 Oct 2017 23:52

Hi Stevelocks3,

The manuals are here: https://www.vinylengine.com/library/ban ... 4002.shtml

I think the owners manual will be more useful for getting the top plate off than the service manual. The service manual may not be complete.

I have a Beogram 3000, but have lusted over the 4002 all these years. Looking at those manuals makes me wonder. That is some intimidating beast. Still, someday who knows?

Phil
Stevelocks3 wrote:I posted on Sept 3rd but had no replies so will try again. A Beogram 4002 needs a new belt but I cannot see how to remove the original because the drive spindle is tucked under the top-plate with almost no clearance. Can someone advise me? There are also more details on my first post.
Steve

Stevelocks3
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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Stevelocks3 » 18 Oct 2017 12:19

Hi Phil,many thanks for the advice; I don't know how I missed the manuals before but will now read closely and work on the deck. I obtained a new belt but I think it's too long and may have to be exchanged.
I bought the deck over 15 years ago, locally and quite by chance, and have never used it. The original owner said it needed a new belt. I was too busy with work and family and I had other decks for everyday use. It will be good to get it going and I will let you know how I progress. I just hope all the electrics and mechanics are working; it's a lot more complicated than my old Thorens and Goldring/Lenco models!
Steve

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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Stevelocks3 » 07 Nov 2017 19:12

Hi Phil
Having dismantled the 4002, I fitted the new belt (just about ok but maybe overlong), linked up my new cable, DIN to phono, and put on an LP. All fine for 2 minutes. I tried another LP and the arm would not lower! It moves back and forwards but won't drop automatically or when the lowering tab is pressed. There is no manual option so I guess the fault must be electronic. I tried again 2 days later with the same result, darn it! The lateral movement tabs work.
Do you have any suggestions? or does anyone?
Thanks Steve

Coffee Phil
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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Coffee Phil » 08 Nov 2017 08:33

Hi Steve,

I have spent a bit of time in the manual but I'm sleep deprived now. I'll give it another try later.

The dropping of the arm appears to be controlled with a solenoid. First I would suggest verifying that the solenoid and the associated linkage can move freely. If nothing is binding, monitor the voltage across the solenoid coil. It should change when the arm rises or drops.

Phil
Stevelocks3 wrote:Hi Phil
Having dismantled the 4002, I fitted the new belt (just about ok but maybe overlong), linked up my new cable, DIN to phono, and put on an LP. All fine for 2 minutes. I tried another LP and the arm would not lower! It moves back and forwards but won't drop automatically or when the lowering tab is pressed. There is no manual option so I guess the fault must be electronic. I tried again 2 days later with the same result, darn it! The lateral movement tabs work.
Do you have any suggestions? or does anyone?
Thanks Steve

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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Stevelocks3 » 09 Nov 2017 11:09

Thanks Phil. Your advice leads me into new territory! Maybe I will recognise a solenoid if told where to look but doubt I could monitor voltage as I don't have the equipment. However I am keen to learn and may find someone locally to Help. I will try to follow your suggestions and report on progress.
Steve

Coffee Phil
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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Coffee Phil » 10 Nov 2017 02:15

Hi Steve,

Look for a cylindrical device linked to the arm lift mechanism. The pictures in the manual on this site are not all that easy to read but with it and looking at the machine you should be able to find it. There should be a plunger in the center which moves in and out lowering and raising the arm. If the mechanical parts move freely, the next step is to see if the signal is getting to the solenoid. There should be two wires going to the solenoid. You can get a ~ $5 digital volt / ohm meter from Harbor Freight. Set it to the volts scale and connect it across the solenoid. I don't know if it is energized to lift or lower the arm but it should change as the arm is supposed to lift or lower.

Phil
Stevelocks3 wrote:Thanks Phil. Your advice leads me into new territory! Maybe I will recognise a solenoid if told where to look but doubt I could monitor voltage as I don't have the equipment. However I am keen to learn and may find someone locally to Help. I will try to follow your suggestions and report on progress.
Steve

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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Stevelocks3 » 13 Nov 2017 15:39

Thanks again Phil. I will look for a meter which may have been given to me years ago and try to make the test. I will let you know the outcome. Steve

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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Stevelocks3 » 31 Jan 2018 22:18

Hi Phil, I have been busy with other things for some time. I looked at the deck with a friend who tested the solenoid and found a current. The mechanical parts function; if the plunger is moved the arm will lift and lower; the default position is raised. Maybe the switch/trigger action has malfunctioned; it did work when I first tried some time ago. Do you have any more advice?
Thanks Steve

Coffee Phil
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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Coffee Phil » 05 Feb 2018 20:51

Hi Steve,

Sorry but I missed this when it came up.
It is now going to take some electrical troubleshooting. If I remember correctly the arm move to the correct position but does not lower. This suggests that the micro "knows" the arm is in position but its signal is not making it to the solenoid.

I'll get back into the schemo today. What test equipment do you have access to?

Phil
Stevelocks3 wrote:Hi Phil, I have been busy with other things for some time. I looked at the deck with a friend who tested the solenoid and found a current. The mechanical parts function; if the plunger is moved the arm will lift and lower; the default position is raised. Maybe the switch/trigger action has malfunctioned; it did work when I first tried some time ago. Do you have any more advice?
Thanks Steve

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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Stevelocks3 » 07 Feb 2018 18:57

Phil, thanks for the reply and your continued interest. Sadly I have no useful equipment, only some old meters which are unfamiliar and may be unreliable, but my new friend has some gear, although he prefers valves and older mechanical items, though he is willing to Help me. I will ask what he owns. To remind you; the arm worked well at first some months ago, but now will only move over the disc to the centre and return to rest when the "play" pad is pressed. It can be halted partway and moved both ways but will not lower, so it is getting lateral signals but not verticals. Could the "detector" arm be at fault?
Steve

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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Coffee Phil » 07 Feb 2018 21:28

Hi Steve,

I don't think the detector arm is the issue. I don't think this machine has the ability to detect tracks. I believe the raising and lowering of the arm and "Q"ing is done with the buttons.

The next step it to search where the signal to the arm solenoid fails. If you friend has a DVM or oscilloscope and can follow a schematic I may be able to talk him through the troubleshooting.

If this does not happen and you don't find a way to get this machine working at a cost which is reasonable with its value, I have been lusting after a Beogram 4002 since they came out. If it is complete I will consider a swap for a working Beogram 3000 which is contemporary with your machine. I'm lacking the dust cover for the machine in question, but I keep looking on eBay for one. The 3000 has a pivoted arm and to my knowledge is the last to use the SP type cartridge which have replaceable styli.

Phil

Stevelocks3 wrote:Phil, thanks for the reply and your continued interest. Sadly I have no useful equipment, only some old meters which are unfamiliar and may be unreliable, but my new friend has some gear, although he prefers valves and older mechanical items, though he is willing to Help me. I will ask what he owns. To remind you; the arm worked well at first some months ago, but now will only move over the disc to the centre and return to rest when the "play" pad is pressed. It can be halted partway and moved both ways but will not lower, so it is getting lateral signals but not verticals. Could the "detector" arm be at fault?
Steve

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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Stevelocks3 » 09 Feb 2018 19:50

Thanks Phil, I will see my friend later this month and examine the deck again. If we can't make progress I will consider passing it on to you. Apart from the fault discussed it seems to be in excellent condition and it now has a new drive belt!
Steve

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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by Coffee Phil » 09 Feb 2018 20:59

Hi Steve,

I really want to see this Beogram working properly in your custody, but if we fail that I will give it a loving home. If I give you one of my Beogram 3000s in exchange my turntable count will remain the same and my wife might not have me committed to the looney bin.

Give me a heads up before taking the machine to your friends so I can work up a step by step of things to check. Disclaimer: I have never worked on a 4002 or even seen the inside of one. I am however a EE and an audiophile. The schematic on this site is not the clearest, however with some time and patience we should be able to get what we need from it.

Meanwhile, I now have a pretty good motor for the 3000 so I'll try to get started cleaning it up and putting my best motor into it.

Phil
Stevelocks3 wrote:Thanks Phil, I will see my friend later this month and examine the deck again. If we can't make progress I will consider passing it on to you. Apart from the fault discussed it seems to be in excellent condition and it now has a new drive belt!
Steve

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Re: Beogram needs new belt

Post by LDIEZ51 » 10 Feb 2018 01:20

Hello I have 4 B&O 4002. If you watch and follow this video on YouTube I am pretty sure you will fix the problem. it is the most common fault. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxIxHb8sZdg&t=99s Title of YouTube is "Beogram 4002/4004: Restoring and Adjusting the Tone Arm Mechanism" LLoyd

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