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Pioneer PL-12D running slow

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Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby mrfotch1 » 12 Sep 2017 01:35

Hello. Just recently acquired my dads old Pioneer turntable. I replaced the belt, but it still runs about 2 RPM slow. Not really a speed inconsistency issue because it stays steady just at a slower speed. Any help trying to fix this issue would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if this was posted before, but I didn't see anything other than inconsistant speed.
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby JDJX » 12 Sep 2017 02:05

I got a 112D which is basically like the 12d.. at least as far as the spindle and speed changer is concerned.

One thing to look for is if the belt guide that moves the belt to change speed is not rubbing on the belt when switched to 33.
Even it it barely touches the belt, it can slow the platter down a bit.

Another thing is to check the belt...... and make sure that all relevant areas are clean, including the motor pulley.

Also, the platter bearing just might only need a re-lube.
If it has never been re-lubed, I would do that anyway. :)
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby mrfotch1 » 12 Sep 2017 02:09

JDJX wrote:I got a 112D which is basically like the 12d.. at least as far as the spindle and speed changer is concerned.

One thing to look for is if the belt guide that moves the belt to change speed is not rubbing on the belt when switched to 33.
Even it it barely touches the belt, it can slow the platter down a bit.

Another thing is to check the belt...... and make sure that all relevant areas are clean, including the motor pulley.

Also, the platter bearing just might only need a re-lube. :)


Thanks for the information.
2 questions for you.
1) Where can I locate the platter bearing?
2) What kind of lubricant should I use/stay away from?
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby JDJX » 12 Sep 2017 04:36

This site tells/shows you all you need to know about restoring and lubing a 112d.

http://mr-ives.blogspot.com/2013/07/res ... table.html
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby 62vauxhall » 13 Sep 2017 06:40

If you are using an RPM phone app, I heard it reads slow @ 33.3 by about 3/4 of an RPM but at 45 RPM, it's closer to accurate.
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby mrfotch1 » 13 Sep 2017 10:47

62vauxhall wrote:If you are using an RPM phone app, I heard it reads slow @ 33.3 by about 3/4 of an RPM but at 45 RPM, it's closer to accurate.


It was reading 2 RPM slow at both 33 an 45 for me. Thanks for the heads up though.
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby Coffee Phil » 13 Sep 2017 22:56

Hi Mrfotch,

For the large part I will be reiterating what others have said. Cleaning and lubing is a good idea if you don't know when it was last done. First off remove the belt and turn the motor shaft by h and there should be very little friction. If it doesn't turn freely cleaning and lubing is necessary. With the belt off the platter should turn for tens of seconds when spun by hand.

The link which JDJX gave looks very good. I like sewing machine oil for lubing the platter bearing and the motor bearings.

Make sure the belt runs centered on the selected part of the capstan. The largest diameter part should be in the middle of the belt.

It is possible that your belt is too thin however that would be unusual as the challenge is to get a belt sufficiently thin. There are many complaints of excessive speed with these machines.

If the belt change arm is not rubbing the belt, the belt is running true, and the friction is reasonable, checking the motor speed is the next step. It should be precisely 1800 RPM on 60 Hz.
This modestly priced optical tach can be used to check the motor:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MY4T3NR

It will also check platter speed to the nearest 0.1 RPM.

If the motor speed is correct and the belt is not slipping suspect an excessively thin belt.

Phil


mrfotch1 wrote:Hello. Just recently acquired my dads old Pioneer turntable. I replaced the belt, but it still runs about 2 RPM slow. Not really a speed inconsistency issue because it stays steady just at a slower speed. Any help trying to fix this issue would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if this was posted before, but I didn't see anything other than inconsistant speed.
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby Coffee Phil » 13 Sep 2017 22:56

Hi Mrfotch,

For the large part I will be reiterating what others have said. Cleaning and lubing is a good idea if you don't know when it was last done. First off remove the belt and turn the motor shaft by h and there should be very little friction. If it doesn't turn freely cleaning and lubing is necessary. With the belt off the platter should turn for tens of seconds when spun by hand.

The link which JDJX gave looks very good. I like sewing machine oil for lubing the platter bearing and the motor bearings.

Make sure the belt runs centered on the selected part of the capstan. The largest diameter part should be in the middle of the belt.

It is possible that your belt is too thin however that would be unusual as the challenge is to get a belt sufficiently thin. There are many complaints of excessive speed with these machines.

If the belt change arm is not rubbing the belt, the belt is running true, and the friction is reasonable, checking the motor speed is the next step. It should be precisely 1800 RPM on 60 Hz.
This modestly priced optical tach can be used to check the motor:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MY4T3NR

It will also check platter speed to the nearest 0.1 RPM.

If the motor speed is correct and the belt is not slipping suspect an excessively thin belt.

Also look for evidence of someone having machined or ground the capstan. It is possible someone did this to get on speed with an excessively thick belt. If the capstan has been altered you may be able to get a replacement from Organ Donor:

http://organdonorparts.com/

Phil


mrfotch1 wrote:Hello. Just recently acquired my dads old Pioneer turntable. I replaced the belt, but it still runs about 2 RPM slow. Not really a speed inconsistency issue because it stays steady just at a slower speed. Any help trying to fix this issue would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if this was posted before, but I didn't see anything other than inconsistant speed.
Last edited by Coffee Phil on 13 Sep 2017 23:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby mrfotch1 » 13 Sep 2017 23:02

Coffee Phil wrote:Hi Mrfotch,

For the large part I will be reiterating what others have said. Cleaning and lubing is a good idea if you don't know when it was last done. First off remove the belt and turn the motor shaft by h and there should be very little friction. If it doesn't turn freely cleaning and lubing is necessary. With the belt off the platter should turn for tens of seconds when spun by hand.

The link which JDJX gave looks very good. I like sewing machine oil for lubing the platter bearing and the motor bearings.

Make sure the belt runs centered on the selected part of the capstan. The largest diameter part should be in the middle of the belt.

It is possible that your belt is too thin however that would be unusual as the challenge is to get a belt sufficiently thin. There are many complaints of excessive speed with these machines.

If the belt change arm is not rubbing the belt, the belt is running true, and the friction is reasonable, checking the motor speed is the next step. It should be precisely 1800 RPM on 60 Hz.
This modestly priced optical tach can be used to check the motor:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MY4T3NR

It will also check platter speed to the nearest 0.1 RPM.

If the motor speed is correct and the belt is not slipping suspect an excessively thin belt.

Phil


mrfotch1 wrote:Hello. Just recently acquired my dads old Pioneer turntable. I replaced the belt, but it still runs about 2 RPM slow. Not really a speed inconsistency issue because it stays steady just at a slower speed. Any help trying to fix this issue would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if this was posted before, but I didn't see anything other than inconsistant speed.


Thank you for the information Phil. I am hoping to have some time tomorrow to dive in to working on the turntable. Have bought sewing machine oil and and some isopropol alcohol to clean off some of the components. I also purchased a different belt from amazon and will probably check that to see if it is an issue with the belt that I purchased.

Thank you to everyone who has offered up information so far. Once I get a chance to work on it, I will let all of you know how it turns out.
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby Coffee Phil » 13 Sep 2017 23:10

Hi Mrfotch,

I edited my post to mention the possibility of someone having machined the capstan for an excessively thick belt. I linked a possible source for a capstan:

http://organdonorparts.com/

Phil
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby Coffee Phil » 13 Sep 2017 23:10

Hi Mrfotch,

I edited my post to mention the possibility of someone having machined the capstan for an excessively thick belt. I linked a possible source for a capstan:

http://organdonorparts.com/

Phil
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby mrfotch1 » 13 Sep 2017 23:13

It was my dads turntable initially. It has been sitting in his attic for several years so I really think it's more of a dried up/needs some oil issue, but will definitely check that out if nothing else works.
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Re: Pioneer PL-12D running slow

Postby mrfotch1 » 15 Sep 2017 00:17

First off, I would like to thank everyone for your help with trying to fix my dads turntable. When I read through the blog where the guy repaired a PL-12D, it stuck out to me that he said the spindle should spin. Mine was not spinning, no way no how. So I took off the spindle and cleaned off all of the oil from the spindle, the well, and the ball bearing. I put some oil on the spindle and reinserted it into the well. Yes I did put the ball bearing on the bottom. Once I tightened the screw, the apindle spun freely. I added a few drops of oild to the motor before hooking everything up. I put my phone down with the RPM app running and fired the old girl up. 33.5 RPM's! Listening to some Stevie Ray Vaughn Live Alive right now.
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