The Telarc 1812 Overture

snap, crackle and pop
almabes
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The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by almabes » 11 Mar 2017 21:36

I've read that it's the ultimate test of the tracking ability of ones tonearms and cartridge. So I bought one.

I've decided to, for the good of the community, perform some experiments. I'm going to try different cartridges on my SL-1200 MK2 and M3D and attempt to have them navigate the tortuous cannon shots.

We'll see what tracks and what doesn't, and what gets completely tossed out of the groove.

I intend to test the Ortofon 2M line from Mono, red, blue, bronze, and black. The OM line from 10-40. I may try a 5E stylus for the heck of it.

To help the carts out, I'll run them at the top of their recommend VTF, and on a 9g SH-4 headshell.

I'll run the Quintet Black S, too.

I have other non-Danish transducers, too.

Paraneer
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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by Paraneer » 11 Mar 2017 22:34

Good luck and have fun with it. Its a great LP.

FWIW, I can track the cannonade with either of my two TT rigs. One being a VPI with an Ortofon Rondo Blue (Fitz Gyger 70 stylus) at 2.3 grams VTF and the other a Technics SL-1400 with an Audio Technica AT-14sa (Shibata stylus) at 1.25 grams VTF.

Let us know your results. Along with any others who have this album too.

almabes
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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by almabes » 11 Mar 2017 23:09

I just tried with the 2M Black on a Technics headshell at 1.7 g VTF. Tracked everything but the last shot.

The stylus was replaced a week or so ago, so it probably has 70 hours or so on it. (Shop table. It plays records 10 hours a day 6 days a week).

vinyl master
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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by vinyl master » 12 Mar 2017 00:11

Sounds like a very cool experiment there, almabes...With all those cannon shots firing, though, you may have to rename your shop "The Boom-Boom Room"! :wink: :lol:

Charlie S
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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by Charlie S » 12 Mar 2017 15:39

Neat experiment, almabes. Have fun torturing cartridges. ;-)

Can you tell us which version of the Telarc 1812 you have? The first version released of 10041 Side-A had the most challenging groove modulation. The dead wax in the runout area is scribed "A11" and "SR" (for Stan Ricker). (Apparently Stan's first ten attempts were scrapped.)

The next "A12" mastering reduced the subsonic level with a 6 dB shelf below 40 Hz and 12 db/octave rolloff below 20 Hz. This was done to reduce excitation of tonearm subsonic resonances. Later masterings were cut at yet slightly different levels. Takeaway is that not all versions of the Telarc 1812 are the same. Some are absurdly difficult to track, the rest merely very difficult.

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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by billshurv » 12 Mar 2017 22:36

If the above is true then I am lucky enough to have the A11. Doing some googling found a reference to a Stan Ricker interview where he claims they only pressed one of his cuts and the other two are by Bruce Leek, one of which is even worse than the original.

The A11 I can track fine, but I'd be really peeved if my system couldn't. For those who don't know what the fuss is about here is a pic.
1812Overture-1.jpg
(57.31 KiB) Downloaded 2610 times

Paraneer
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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by Paraneer » 12 Mar 2017 23:20

Charlie S wrote:The first version released of 10041 Side-A had the most challenging groove modulation. The dead wax in the runout area is scribed "A11" and "SR" (for Stan Ricker). (Apparently Stan's first ten attempts were scrapped.)
Thanks for sharing this.

I checked and my copy is indeed an A11 SR. Good to know I able to track it with either of my TT's.

almabes
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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by almabes » 13 Mar 2017 03:16

I'll have to look when I get back to the shop.
So far, I can track all but the last shot with a 2M Black on an Ortofon SH-4. The 2M Black on the 7.6g Technics headshell did ok too, but missed the last shot completely. It must have gone out of the groove, because I completely lost audio for a split second.
For fun I watched the arm during the shots, and WOW, they're friggin violent.
I'm getting lots of tech support from Ortofon, so I'm sure I'll eventually get it tracking.

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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by BMRR » 13 Mar 2017 03:21

I'll be interested to find out how the Bronze and the Blue fare in this experiment. According to Ortofon's literature, the Blue and the Bronze have the exact same tracking ability as the Black... but I'm very interested in real-world results!

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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by Slavikcc » 13 Mar 2017 13:13

There's a few YouTube videos demonstrating how well it tracks the cannon shots in the grooves:

VPI Scout Master with a SME M2-12 Tonearm and an Ortofon MC-09B



A Thorens turntable with a SME tonearm and Denon DL-103 cartridge



A Denon DP-2000 with custom plinth build, a Black Widow tonearm, and a B&O cartridge (MMC series)



And a Numark TTXUSB turntable with a Nagaoka MP-500 (note that it has a tenuous grasp on the grooves during the cannon shots and it sounds like it skipped for a micro-second)



Going by how it tracks, having a really good tonearm helps with properly tracking the cannon shots.

almabes
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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by almabes » 13 Mar 2017 13:21

Me, as well, BMRR. Once I get the Black tracking on the SL-1200 arm, I'll downgrade to the Bronze and Blue. I also have an Audio-Technica AT15SS with an original Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever.

I have an RP3 in the shop as well. Curious how that will fare. It's more of a PITA to swap carts on, though.

I also have an SL-M2 with an OMP40 I'll try as well.

I tried the Quintet Black S on a standard black Technics headshell at 2.5g VTF. Couldn't make the first shot. I was surprised.

I'm doing this as a learning experience. I just want to know what it takes for me to make it work on decent, yet pedestrian, gear. Hopefully, we'll have some good discussion, and between the braintrust here, and my contact at Ortofon all learn a thing or three.

Slavikcc
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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by Slavikcc » 13 Mar 2017 13:25

I can't find a copy of the album locally to see how well it worked with my JVC since mine has a electro-dynamic-servo tonearm. I wonder if tonearm damping makes a difference?

almabes
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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by almabes » 13 Mar 2017 13:50

Slavikcc wrote:I can't find a copy of the album locally to see how well it worked with my JVC since mine has a electro-dynamic-servo tonearm. I wonder if tonearm damping makes a difference?
It should. Those shots are violent. My SL-1200 arm visibly shudders on each one. Ortofon suggests I add mass to the headshell to see if that helps. I might do that today after my wife and I go to the gun range.

eddiep
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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by eddiep » 14 Mar 2017 02:25

I have submitted 3 posts on this and another forum; I bought the original Telarc in about 1979. I found that almost all Audio Technica cart's could track it without problems, also Shures, Empires, and Accutex. Many others could track all but the last cannon shot. Ortofons and Stantons were the worst performers, the 881S doing a bit better. JVC and Denon TTS with servotracer arms could track even with the worse performing cartridges.. This recod was produced with the assistance of Audio Technica, so it's not surprising AT's generally track.it well, except for the later 440 ML etc., at least in my experience.

almabes
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Re: The Telarc 1812 Overture

Post by almabes » 14 Mar 2017 02:29

So my AT15SS should handle it no problem, then. Eager to try that one out. I noticed on the back of the cover it said "Distributed by Audio-Technica".

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