the home of the turntable

Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

snap, crackle and pop

Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby Cube Bass » 10 Jan 2017 09:00

Hello,

I'm in the middle of decision on my first turntable and I'm considering one of those entry level Pro-Jects. As I'm new to this world I feel confused with the variations of their Debut line.

Some of them are upgraded with carbon tonearm and the others (Esprit) with acrylic platter. Some do have both, but as a beginner I'm not sure if I want to spend that much because I have to buy some phono stage as well (also still undecided).

So, which one of those improvements is more important or affect the resulting sound in better way?

The acrylic platter/aluminium tonearm is "Pro-ject Debut III DC Esprit Piano + OM10"
The metal platter/carbon tonearm is "Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC + OM 10" or more expensive version with 2M Red cartridge..

Not sure if I want spend that much, so considerations are also cheaper Debut III with OM5e or Essential II also with OM5e. Both are with aluminium tonearm, the Essential II have MDF platter.

What would you suggest?

Thanks, Cube Bass
Cube Bass
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Jan 2017 08:36

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby metrofarm » 10 Jan 2017 11:03

Welcome to the world of vinyl records and to this forum!

Wow, there's a lot of choices in the Pro-ject range! I don't have any experience with the current range but I have a few thoughts as a Pro-ject turntable owner myself (of a much, much older Pro-ject 6).

For me the key difference between the Essential range and the Debut range is that the later has a 'speed-box' type of feature - i.e. the motor can electronically regulate the speed to be more exact than a non-regulated motor. Otherwise it's the same basic idea for both ranges: motor>>belt>>platter. Speed regulation might be a useful feature and it might not.

The idea with belt drive turntables is that a heavier plater gives better speed stability. The Pro-ject's with the acrylic platter have a platter that weighs the same as the metal alternative on the debut's - so no weight stability advantage there. But it would be a bit heavier than the mdf platter on an essential. The acrylic *might* provide a subtle difference to the sound because it's less resonant than metal or mdf but that might not be evident with your ears / system. But we're not talking chalk and cheese. Subtle.

I don't believe that in this entry level area of TT choices that a carbon arm is better than an aluminium one. On paper perhaps, but Pro-ject have been making aluminium arms for a long time. They make good arms for the prices they charge. I suspect the carbon arm is very entry level and not the same as a carbon arm on some esoteric high end table. It might be more rigid than aluminium but the aluminium is probably rigid enough. I mean cartridges weigh between 5g and 6.5 grams in the case of the OM and 2M cartridges. We're not talking the end of fishing rod with a marlin running hard off it. Again carbon might be better but subtly better as more rigid equals less resonance so the vibrating stylus is less distorted. But it will be a subtle improvement.

The cartridges. I personally wouldn't pay that much extra for a 2m Red cartridge. The older OM10 is the equivalent and it's probably a better match for Pro-ject tonearms anyway. Ditto the OM5e - the differences between a 5 and 10 are pretty small and both have bonded elliptical stylus' (as does the 2m Red). These are all good to excellent entry level cartridges that can be upgraded with a new stylus to high end (i.e. OM 20 or 30 or 40). The 2m has lots of people here that love it, and lots that hate it. Only your ears will tell you. The 2m will immediately sound louder as it is slightly higher output and that might make it seem very different when you first hear it. But it's not better. Most amplifiers have volume controls so that difference can be adjusted :D

However, I believe the 2m range is basically Ortofon repackaging the older OM with a few minor internal electrical changes in a new case with slightly higher sound output and slightly different compliance (compliance is how the stylus 'springs' against the record surface relative to the weight of the tonearm - this can be very technical and not worth worrying about at this stage if you're new to vinyl). All these differences come at a substantially higher price (a 2m is twice the price of an OM10. No way is it twice the cartridge).

All Pro-jects are a bit flimsy compared to say a Technics SL1200 (but what isn't). I don't mean flimsy as in shoddy, I mean as in stripped down the basics - somewhat fragile if you will. The tonearm rest has no locking mechanism, there's no auto return, the queuing lever is very lightweight, the antiskate is thread and weight. But that's good - all the basics are there and many of these things are there to reduce the turntable to it's essential - the very least required to get quality sound. But a Pro-ject's not going to take heavy party use. But it will last if looked after. I think they've got good bearings and wiring and 'have it were it counts' at the price range they offer.

I'd be tempted to get the lowest of the Debut line as it will give you a bit more. It should have slightly better tolerances, bearings and tweak-ability. As it stands it will be a great TT that sounds wonderful and will play records in a way that is engaging. The essential will do much the same to start with, it is after all what Pro-ject advertise as being the essentials, the minimum. As you grow as a turntable user (if you end up doing that) then the essential will seem, well, a little too basic. There's the elemental below it but they exist as quality consumer appliances - i.e like a pod coffee machine - you buy it and use it but there really isn't any room to tweak it or adjust things. The manufacturer knows best. Compared to the equivalent Crosby the essentials are stunning high quality rolled in gold products. But unlike an essential you can't adjust counterweight and so you really can't try different cartridges and / or tracking forces. The manufacturer knows best with this range.

If I could give one piece of advice - perhaps buy from a shop that deals in Pro-ject. You'll get good advice (hopefully) and you'll be able to appreciate the differences as they sound, as opposed to how they read on some spec sheet.

In short, all your choices are bit like gateway drukqs that tend to lead towards ever more expensive purchases.

Anyway, good luck. It's a fun hobby. Hopefully this'll get you thinking towards you're needs and wants from a turntable and other's will be able to provide more useful (i.e. specific) advice. Overall I think that there's lots of subtle improvements available across the turntable you're looking at. But all the acrylic and carbon and speed regulation on offer doesn't transform these tables beyond being entry level. But entry level with Pro-ject is good. There's always better, but all of the choices you're looking at are going to make music sound very nice and frankly setup and room placement of speakers etc. will probably make a bigger difference to sound quality than anything else in the spec sheet choices that you're contemplating.
User avatar
metrofarm
member
member
 
Posts: 101
Joined: 02 Aug 2014 12:11

Australia

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby Cube Bass » 11 Jan 2017 10:17

Wow, thanks a lot Metrofarm for such an in depth post.

I've read the manuals and it seems that there are more differences between Debut III (on manufacturer's web in "archive" section, so probably discontinued, but still in stock here and there) and Debut Carbon (introduced 2014) than I noticed first.

It seems that the older/cheaper version "III" don't have that regulated motor. How much important is that? In some specs I found +/- 0.8 % speed drift on both anyway, but maybe you were talking about the "wow & flutter" specification? It is +/- 0.1 % on "Carbon" version but didn't found info about "III" version...

The second thing is, that the "III" version has fixed signal cable. I would just like to ask if that is OK - i.e. whether the possibility of cable upgrade with the "Carbon" version (detachable) has any meaning in this entry level range.

For the cartridges - I encountered that opinion of 2M range more than once. So I'll stick with OMs. Do I undertand that right that even the body of lowest OM5e cardridge can be upgraded with higher OM stylus?

Would you mind if I asked about the phono stages as well? The obvious choice is one of Pro-Ject's preamps. Do you know them? There are few really basic (Elemental line and Classic line); the highest model from them I consider is Pro-Ject Phono Box S. Extras of this model are subsonic filter, dual mono design, adjustable gain (4 steps) and switchable input impedance/capacitance. Are those important features?

Are there other brands/models at this range you can recommend or forewarn? Units that are easily disposable at local shops are fore example: Cambridge Audio Azur 551P or CP1, Vincent Pho-200, NAD PP2e, Thorens MM-001 (and others) or slightly more expensive but not impossible - Music Hall PA1.2 or Schiit Mani.

To make complete picture - I don't have integrated amp/speakers setup. I will be playing records through quality grade studio active monitors. I am also home recording hobbyist and don't have enough room in my living room for having both "hi-fi" and "reference" listening - so that is the reason.. :-)
Cube Bass
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Jan 2017 08:36

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby metrofarm » 11 Jan 2017 11:58

No worries Cube Bass, I hope I've been helpful.

I was thinking a bit about my response after I posted and was wondering myself how important really, is a speed control? If you could pick up an older Debut without that for a good price then that would be a good way to go. Even an essential will probably give you almost all of the performance of a Debut. Most upgrades are fairly subtle - but lots of small upgrades do lead to differences in sound quality. These differences can be improvements but they can also just be different (and expensive).

I'm not sure about the speed fluctuation (i.e. regulated motor) figures. I was using a Technics direct drive that had .025% wow & flutter. So regulated and very, very good figures. Much better than my pro-ject. But I couldn't say it sounded better than the pro-ject. I thought my pro-ject sounded 'better' with the same cartridge. Plus a slightly fast turntable, for argument's example, can sound more 'dynamic'. I've also read that a quartz locked turntable (i.e. 'regulated' like a speed box) can display a 'cogging' effect as the tt is always trying to adjust to correct 33.3 speed ... Others will argue that this is not the case. So I guess my point with speed control is, is that it's not as simple as just saying that a speed box will make a difference that is good to your ears just because you have it. Honestly I wouldn't worry about it.

Lots of tt's have fixed cables. It's not the end of the world but obviously you can't play around with cables if what you've got is soldered onto the end of the TT :D . But, really, playing about with cables is to play around with capacitance (i.e the resistance in the cable). I think you can be confident that if Pro-ject spec the cables that you'll be right with any of the Pro-ject phono boxes. Capacitance matters with cartridges as different carts expect different loads and sound more or less bright depending on the load they work best with. It gets pretty technical. That's me saying I'm still learning and I've had a few red wines with dinner tonight :P But I believe that OM series cartridges are pretty forgiving of capacitance. Audio Technica cartridges, as an example, are less forgiving and more prone to sounding bright if the capacitance is wrong (i.e. too high). So again, don't worry about it.

Absolutely, you can upgrade even the lowest OM5e with the 10, 20, 30 & 40 (and you can go the other way too - ie. from a 40 stylus down to a 5e). You could also swap stylus' with the Omega cartridge and some other Ortofon Cart bodies as well. Believe it or not there's lower than a 5e. There's a 5 (conical) and a 3e. All are compatible. You'll also see "super" Om bodies - so a Super Om10, 20 etc. Again, these are compatible so any stylus any cartridge will work. These super bodies are a later revision with a slightly different winding of the coils within them and a very slightly different sound - again, think subtle difference.

I'm not very knowledgeable with phono stages. There are really cheap ones that are basically a few dollars worth of capacitors and a case. They feature pretty generic circuit layouts and are usually 2 stages. People tend to state on the internet that 3 stage arrangements sound better. I don't know off hand what those stages are. I was under the impression that all the pro-ject stages were dual mono and quite good compared to the alternatives. Perhaps the cheapest one is worth passing on, but ... Anyway, A lot of people like the Schitt Mani and the Art Pre DJ gets a mention as cheap that punches above it's cost and the >> insert personal choice here << always gets a mention. I've read positive and negative opinions on all the preamps you mention. Sometimes you'd swear it was like the end of the world the way some people talk about any given phono stage. Basically I understand that better phono stages sound more 3 dimensional, more like you are in the room, or provide more lifelike renditions of instruments. Plus, as you've observed, when you start spending more money you can change things like the capacitance and select between MM/MC cartridges. I don't think this last feature will be relevant to you. Overall all the more expensive features you mention allow you to tweak the sound and tailor it to your taste or bring it closer to the set of parameters that the cartridge works best with.

I've never used amplified speakers (i.e. I assume what you have is a pair of speakers with a built in amplifier / volume control?). So I can't speak as to whether they will allow you to hear the differences that a better phono stage might provide.

With phono stages, if you weren't sure then I'd suggest you buy something cheap, get going and then perhaps upgrade when you can test better and hear that it's better. By cheap I mean <$20 US. If it really sucks then you won't be out much and it's a cheap experiment to discover that you can hear the differences that better equipment provides. Just make sure whatever you get has a ground screw for the tt.

Ultimately the sound you achieve can only be as good as the weakest link. That could be any given component or the room or the combination of components that you have in the room that they are housed in. The weakest link could be the setup - a miss-aligned cartridge will never sound good, no matter how expensive the turntable is that it's attached to. The cost to fix that is a single page printed on a printer and the time taken to learn how to get it right. Certainly no one was born knowing how to align cartridges using Baerwald ... (I hope!)

I think whatever you buy will allow you to learn about tt's and their sound and based on that learning your own appreciation of what you want, what sounds good to you, will develop. I say this because I can't see any glaringly bad choices in all the gear you've mentioned. I certainly haven't used most of it but none of it is trash and I think any of it (even an essential with a 5e) would make listening to vinyl enjoyable. Trust me, I'm a stranger on the internet! :mrgreen:
User avatar
metrofarm
member
member
 
Posts: 101
Joined: 02 Aug 2014 12:11

Australia

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby Cube Bass » 11 Jan 2017 15:11

Yes, stranger from other side of planet. Hope that the records will stay at the turntable at my side of globe.. :-) Just kidding - only difference here, that I had white wine..

So you assume that even the cheapest version of Debut is better choice then the Essential II because of the heavier platter? I am asking because that Debut III is even cheaper (11% cheapar to be precise)..

I guess I got your point with the cheap phono stage experiment, but as I originally intended to spend more on the turntable itself I can displace that part of the budget here to buy something nice at once and after it just enjoy listening. So if there is no obvious trash amongst units I am looking at, I'll probably do some more reading and pick one of those.. Just encountered Cambridge Audio CP2 model during my research and it seems as a good option too.. Will read about the ART as well - my band mate has their entry level mic preamp and is satisfied with the quality..

Yes, the speakers will be that kind of built-in amp with volume control and some EQ meant for room acoustics correction. They are designed for critical listening during mixing, so I suppose they should be sensitive about qualities (dynamics, channel separation..) of the input signal.

One more thing occured my mind - the cables from phono stage to those monitors. Most of the RCA cables in hi-fi shops are stereo; I mean the 2 lines are bonded together, but I need to lead those separately few meters from each other. There are some monophonic subwoofer cables in hi-fi shops or there are some normal signal RCA-RCA cables in music instrument shops - do they differ somehow given this application?
Cube Bass
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Jan 2017 08:36

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby metrofarm » 11 Jan 2017 23:22

Yes, I think the heavier platter Début is the way to go. The cheaper essential platter seems very tinny and lightweight to me. Mind you, I use a Pro-ject 6 with a 2.3 kg platter and that makes the début platter seem relatively lightweight. A heavier platter seems to be the one thing that everyone agrees is important with a turntable. Of course there are people using platters that weigh two, three times what I use so. Anyway, things that come to mind with a heavier platter are speed stability (inertia)and a lack of resonance effecting the actual stylus when it's vibrating in the record groove during playback. I think the début is better then because of that, and the tonearm is better I think and overall it's a better unit than the more basic essential.

I'm not sure about the cables. You've got say 3.5mv coming from the tt into the preamp. From the preamp you've got say 350mv. These are very rough approximations btw. Now normally in an amp that 350mv travels a short distance and it's into the gain stage and being amplified and then it's out into the speaker wires. You probably know all that but I'm thinking aloud. What worries me is that that 350mv will have to travel quite a distance to be amplified by the speakers. Hopefully a more knowledgeable member can advise but whatever you use will need to be shielded at the very least. Plus you want to be able set the tt up away from the speakers - the low notes they produce can and will effect playback if the tt is, for example, too close. Similarly a tt on the same shelf as a speaker will both be exposed to vibrations. Again not good.

Of course you could always get some cables made up. DIY is easy enough or someone online like blue jeans cables will make to length and their RCA cables won't be bonded together. How many meters do you need to run? I'm not sure about the monophonic cables, hopefully someone else has some experience with them?

Well the Cambridge costs $350 Australian so I'd assume that that's a pretty good phono stage! I haven't listened to the unit you've mentioned but Cambridge have a good reputation, I think. Given that Cambridge make a budget amp with phono stage for about $450 Australian I would think that that phone stage would deliver the sonic goods.

I Add to dictionary the
User avatar
metrofarm
member
member
 
Posts: 101
Joined: 02 Aug 2014 12:11

Australia

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby Cube Bass » 12 Jan 2017 07:22

The cables will not need to be extra long. Circa 2 meters each, +/- O.5 meter. Maybe one of them should be shorter, but that probably is not a good idea..

That CA CP2 phono stage seems a little cheaper here in Europe - something like 280 AUD (but I never really understood rates between currencies). Many of those other before mentioned phonos have nice reviews but from time to time there are some bad units reports or compatibility problems.. I didn`t read any single complaint about this model.

There is something missing at the end of your post, isn`t it?
Cube Bass
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Jan 2017 08:36

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby nkorah » 12 Jan 2017 11:23

I'll sujest that you go for one of the paralel Regas - Those, both the Regas and the ProJects, are VERY similar turntables, to the point that the turntable itself is making VERY little differance in sound quality (and I'm putting features aside).

What does makes a differance is the tonearm. The Project 8.6 tonearm, which is supplied with the company basic TTs, is very limited by its length (8.6 In), and was made to be even more suseptible to it's limitation ever since the carbon version lowered its effective mass to 6 Gr'.

The basic Rega models, on the other hand, are suplied equiped with the 110 tonearm, which is (even though very basic) a full lenght 9" tonearm, of medium-low mass, and works very well with matching-priced cartridges.

A little higher in the price scale, my recomendation would be the opposit, since ProJect DOES know how to make great TT's and it's 9" tonearm is very, very good indeed.

Cheers!
Audiolab 8000Q+Ms Rotel RCD991 Mission 782
Lenco L78 Denon DL103, at-mono3/lp + Infinity Black Widow ADC XLM MKiii, Thorens TD160 Stanton 881s
User avatar
nkorah
member
member
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 14 Sep 2006 10:44

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby metrofarm » 12 Jan 2017 11:27

Not sure what happened at the end of my last message.

I think for a 2-3m long run I'd just use a pair of decent quality 3m long RCA cables. I've seen lots on ebay advertised for video use. Most of them will be joined but left and right will usually just pull apart. I think the single mono cables you mentioned would also be fine as well and if they're available locally that's a plus. I looked up this subwoofer cable you mention. It commonly appears to be double shielded coax. It should work fine. If you can buy locally with a try and return policy that would probably be best. You could try both and see if there's any sonic differences that you can hear.
User avatar
metrofarm
member
member
 
Posts: 101
Joined: 02 Aug 2014 12:11

Australia

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby Cube Bass » 12 Jan 2017 17:54

to Metrofarm:

I just found some inexpensive mono 2,5 m cables from brand named Roline that look good enough. Double shielded, gold-plated connectors. There seemed to be some other options in music instrument shops, but they always have only one piece of brand and/or length.. :-)

to Nkorah:

I was considering the entry level Rega as well at one moment. There is only that RP1 model available around (probably just discontinued this week, because it is not on their web now). I found in some specs that it has some duralumin RB101 tonearm, but cannot find any further information about the length or comarision with RB110, etc.. The actually lowest Planar 1 looks nice and have rave reviews, but nobody is selling them here. And those higher Planars are expensive for me as a beginner..

(Beside that I slightly tend towards the Pro-Ject brand, because it is manufactured in my country (Czech Republic), so I would have a nice feel of supporting local workers.. :-)

Thanks You both. Cube Bass
Cube Bass
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Jan 2017 08:36

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby aoerstroem » 12 Jan 2017 19:55

Hi there

I have owned a couple of "entry level" RIAA, and I have experienced quite a difference in sound quality from them.

The ones I have used in that price range are the Cambridge 540P, Nad PP2, Micromega Mygroov and Aurora (store brand).

Of the four I preferred the Cambridge in my system by far (I was using a Pro-Ject RPM4 with a 2M Red at the time). It had a presence, energy and high frequency performance that the other could not match. The Micromega in particular, although smooth and pleasant, really rolled off the higher frequencies.

What I am trying to say is that the RIAA is a much bigger contributor to the overall sound than you might think. Unsurprisingly my vote, in your case, goes to the Cambridge.

When it comes to the turntable, I would choose the carbon if you intend to upgrade it (you can buy acryllic third party platters several places) but the Debut if you intend to leave it as is. A heavier platter does indeed make a big difference, but it is far simpler (and cheaper) to buy an aftermarket acryllic platter than changing arms.

Should you decide to upgrade to another platform/TT at a later time, you can use the Pro-Ject Carbon arm on another turntable/armboard, as the Linn mount is widely used (same goes for the aluminium version of course). Being able to change the cables can also be both useful and interesting.
aoerstroem
member
member
 
Posts: 60
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 23:53
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Denmark

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby Cube Bass » 12 Jan 2017 19:58

Humph! Am I insane to considering at this moment Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Communicator phono stage with such a basic turntable? :-) It is not that much more expensive over that CP2..
I mean I'll certainly make some cartridge upgrade in the future and I am wondering whether there will be some advantage with this phono or whether it would augment the imperfections of this turntable (P-J Debut III)..

Cube Bass
Cube Bass
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Jan 2017 08:36

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby aoerstroem » 12 Jan 2017 21:04

I have recommended this guy's youtube channel several times tonight, so my apologies if you have already seen it, but the reviewer Hivinyws on youtube has a comprehensive RIAA shootout (as well as a budget cartridge one) on his channel.

Of the seven RIAAs he recommends, the Graham Slee (albeit the SE version, not the Communicator) is the worst performer in his opinion. Take a look at his channel; you might find it interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaAoydUgm64
My candle burns at both ends; / It will not last the night; / But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends— / It gives a lovely light!
_
Edna St. Vincent Millay
aoerstroem
member
member
 
Posts: 60
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 23:53
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Denmark

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby metrofarm » 12 Jan 2017 23:40

aoerstroem wrote:I have recommended this guy's youtube channel several times tonight, so my apologies if you have already seen it, but the reviewer Hivinyws on youtube has a comprehensive RIAA shootout (as well as a budget cartridge one) on his channel.

Of the seven RIAAs he recommends, the Graham Slee (albeit the SE version, not the Communicator) is the worst performer in his opinion. Take a look at his channel; you might find it interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaAoydUgm64


Good pick aoerstroem, I didn't realise this chap had reviewed phono stages. I thought his reviews of cartridges were pretty good and he is, at the very least, consistent in his approach to reviewing and seems to talk about things that you might be able to hear with regards to qualities like treble or detail and compares them consistently between whatever it is he's reviewing. Of course what he hears in his system might not be evident in another person's setup - his amplifier and speakers and listening area look pretty fancy (i.e. expensive) to me. But certainly listening, even on youtube, might give someone an idea of what's what with different preamps and how it is that what you get, sonically speaking, with more expensive units, can change (or not).

On a completely different note, what amazes me with things like amplifiers (or in this case preamplifiers) is that they, theoretically at least, can be thought of as striving to be 'a straight wire with gain' (i.e. the simplest circuit to do the job). And yet amplifiers all have such different sounds. I know there's a school of thought that says any amplifier working within it's limits (i.e. not distorting) will sound the same. But this doesn't seem to be the case in many people's experience.

Curiously I've read a few times over the net how really simple preamps are too simple, can't do the job that a more complex circuit can, hence a 3 stage circuit will do a better job than a 2 stage preamp. Anyway, just interesting.

cube bass,

The cables you're talking about sound exactly like what I saw on eBay. I think the shielded option, gold interconnect and pretty cheap is the way to go.
User avatar
metrofarm
member
member
 
Posts: 101
Joined: 02 Aug 2014 12:11

Australia

Re: Pro-Ject Debut line - differences

Postby Cube Bass » 13 Jan 2017 09:25

Aoerstroem,
thanks for this source of information. Really interesting youtube channel! I somehow missed this media during my research.
His excitement about Schiit Mani is kind of contagious.. :-) Unforunately it is quite expensive here in Prague. It costs the same as that Cambridge Audio CP2. If I knew the Mani would work better for me, I could probably live with the price. Sadly they are not in the same shop, so I can`t do the direct comparision for myself..

And there it goes once again - Debut III vs. Debut Carbon... I am such an indecisive person and this one is pure hell! Thank You! ;-)

Cube Bass
Cube Bass
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Jan 2017 08:36

Next

Return to Turntables and Tonearms