Beogram 3000 lubrication

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slipangle
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Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by slipangle » 31 Jan 2012 22:46

Hello,
I'm new here. Have an inquiry and hope someone can help me out. I recently hooked up an old (72-75) Beogram 3000 TT which had been sitting for years. It's the standard tonearm type, not linear tracking arm. I've searched the internet and library for a service manual to no avail. Can anyone direct me to a manual?

I was thinking that since this TT has been sitting idle for so many years, it should probably be cleaned and lubed. Fearing the lubes have dried out, should I run this thing? It seems to run OK. Everything works as far as I can tell. It was running a bit fast but I just discovered, from a post by CoffeePhil , thanks!..that this unit has a pitch control wheel on it. I never noticed it #-o

Can I lube this unit myself? Are there any tutorials anywhere? I am a pretty handy fellow, with all manner of tools and lubricants at my disposal. Can someone recommend a basic procedure and particular points inside that would require cleaning and lube?

Thanks for any help

Slip

Coffee Phil
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by Coffee Phil » 01 Feb 2012 17:57

Hi Slipangle,

I have an owners manual but no service manual. I may scan the owners manual someday (sooner if someone needs it) and put it in the library. There isn't much there which is not obvious. There is a B&O group which may have the service manual but I don't know the URL.

With no manual I would use spray white lithium grease on the lift mechanism and platter bearing well. The spray cans come with a little plastic tube to direct the lubricant into small places. I'd use sewing machine oil on the motor bearings.

If your speed is stable without having to warm the machine for twenty minutes consider your self lucky. Those little induction motors devoloped a problem which has never been fully explained to me. They replaced a bunch of those motors in warranty. I don't know if they ever got it right.

If you find a link to the service manual please let me know as I want one.

Phil


slipangle wrote:Hello,
I'm new here. Have an inquiry and hope someone can help me out. I recently hooked up an old (72-75) Beogram 3000 TT which had been sitting for years. It's the standard tonearm type, not linear tracking arm. I've searched the internet and library for a service manual to no avail. Can anyone direct me to a manual?

I was thinking that since this TT has been sitting idle for so many years, it should probably be cleaned and lubed. Fearing the lubes have dried out, should I run this thing? It seems to run OK. Everything works as far as I can tell. It was running a bit fast but I just discovered, from a post by CoffeePhil , thanks!..that this unit has a pitch control wheel on it. I never noticed it #-o

Can I lube this unit myself? Are there any tutorials anywhere? I am a pretty handy fellow, with all manner of tools and lubricants at my disposal. Can someone recommend a basic procedure and particular points inside that would require cleaning and lube?

Thanks for any help

Slip

slipangle
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by slipangle » 02 Feb 2012 01:28

Thanks Coffee Phil,

I haven't run the machine long enough to tell if the speed is stable before warm up. It was running a bit fast though. Thanks for the lube recommendations. Is there a trick to removing the platter? I must be missing something. Also, I've got the thing inverted on my bench down there, platter still in place. Is it "safe" to leave it like that for any length of time while I clean it? I guess I don't have a choice.
Like I say, I'm mechanically inclined, but I don't know squat about these things.

Thanks

Slip

Coffee Phil
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by Coffee Phil » 02 Feb 2012 05:55

Hi Scott,
I am assuming that you mean the subplatter. The main platter just lifts off.

I have yet to remove the subplatter but I think I know how. Look for a Nylon gear near the bottom of the platter shaft. There is a roll pin retaining the gear to the shaft. If you drive the pin from the gear and shaft you should then be able to pull the subplatter and shaft up and out. I have yet to have a compelling reason to do this so I haven't for fear of messing up the nylon gear.

I see from your PM that you may have a line on a service manual. If you get it I am anxious to see it. When I am done with my mods I would like to re-lube the machine. It would be good to see B&Os recomendation for lubricants and dissassembly instructions.

Phil
slipangle wrote:Thanks Coffee Phil,

I haven't run the machine long enough to tell if the speed is stable before warm up. It was running a bit fast though. Thanks for the lube recommendations. Is there a trick to removing the platter? I must be missing something. Also, I've got the thing inverted on my bench down there, platter still in place. Is it "safe" to leave it like that for any length of time while I clean it? I guess I don't have a choice.
Like I say, I'm mechanically inclined, but I don't know squat about these things.

Thanks

Slip

slipangle
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by slipangle » 02 Feb 2012 13:32

Hi Phil,

I guess there's no reason to remove the sub-platter, other than to lube the sub-platter shaft perhaps.
I'll probably leave well enough alone.

I'm curious about one feature of this machine. Maybe it's true of all turntables, I don't know. The idler wheel assembly seems to be mounted on a sort of a swing arm, and the idler and drive pulley can be rotated away from the tapered drift shaft by moving the toothed pitch control wheel. Interesting.

Not holding my breath on the service manual but if he manages to comes through I'll let you know.

Thanks

Scott

rapidroy
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by rapidroy » 03 Feb 2012 05:04

Here it is....
http://beophile.com/
Go to "RESOURCES"

I just got my 4004 working.

Roy

Coffee Phil
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by Coffee Phil » 03 Feb 2012 06:57

Hi Roy,

Thanks so much for the link! I've been wanting that manual since the seventies.
I burned a CD ROM of it.

Congratulations on getting your 4004 working. I was lusting for a 4002 when I got my 3000 new. I still don't have it (or any linear tracker).

Phil

rapidroy
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by rapidroy » 03 Feb 2012 15:12

cool
My 4004 could not find 45's it would drop the tone arm on 33 with or without a 33 or 45 on the plater. Not good!! I replaced some cap's, that didnt help, so I started pulling and testing the transistors, the first one I tested, tested good so I put it back, then the darn turntable worked? cold solder joint I guess. Got lucky.

slipangle
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by slipangle » 04 Feb 2012 18:02

Say,
Thanks Roy. I had seen that page but since mine is a type 5231, I didn't explore it as it's not listed there. I'm having trouble opening that but will have to check out my Adobe, an upgrade, maybe.

I think, however, that the type 5228 is very similar in construction. here's a link to a file a friend sent me from Denmark, also for the 5228 plus the 1202 type 5237, which I think is available on the net.
Come to find out there is no lubrication info in this, but maybe there is in the one you linked.

I managed to wing it, without this, and just clean up and re-lube what I could see, without getting too involved. Seems to be working a bit quieter, though I'm still un-sure of the speed stability you mentioned Phil.

Thanks fellas, sorry about this long link. I'm a near computer illiterate :> Hope this works.

Scott

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... 6GWw&pli=1

slipangle
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by slipangle » 04 Feb 2012 18:08

Ah,

Roy and Phil,

This appears to be the same document you linked to. Thank you guys,

Scott

Coffee Phil
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by Coffee Phil » 06 Feb 2012 17:14

Hi Scott,

Your motor may be fine. They may have finally fixed the problem. I think mine developed the issue after the time when B&O stopped supporting the machine. What happens is that the motor runs more than 10% slow for several minutes then speeds up to normal speed. I had this same issue with a Presto idler drive machine which I used to have. A tech who worked on the B&Os told me the issue was common and the only fix was to replace the motor which by then was not available. He had no idea what was wrong with the motor but he had several motors which he had replaced which he gave me to do "post mortems" on. I play with them from time to time but still have no answer. My interest in the motor is know more acedemic than driven by a need as I have fitted the brushless DC floppy disk drive motor to my Beogram. I have a second Beogram "parts machine" which I bought used for very cheap. It has an even funkier motor than the one which came out of my main B&O. If I get the main machine complete without having to canabalize the "parts" machine I put the better B&O motor in it. I am out of the floppy drive motors. I had bought several from the surplus store years ago but a couple met with "brain dead" accidents and one is in an Edisom cylinder machine project.

Phil
slipangle wrote:Say,
Thanks Roy. I had seen that page but since mine is a type 5231, I didn't explore it as it's not listed there. I'm having trouble opening that but will have to check out my Adobe, an upgrade, maybe.

I think, however, that the type 5228 is very similar in construction. here's a link to a file a friend sent me from Denmark, also for the 5228 plus the 1202 type 5237, which I think is available on the net.
Come to find out there is no lubrication info in this, but maybe there is in the one you linked.

I managed to wing it, without this, and just clean up and re-lube what I could see, without getting too involved. Seems to be working a bit quieter, though I'm still un-sure of the speed stability you mentioned Phil.

Thanks fellas, sorry about this long link. I'm a near computer illiterate :> Hope this works.

Scott

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... 6GWw&pli=1

mbloes
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by mbloes » 06 Aug 2012 22:44

I’m sorry for being 6 months late but I successfully did this last month so I thought I would contribute (Sorry but no pics).

The problem is that the grease has dried in the two “oilite” bearings that the motor armature spins in. The solution is to disassemble the motor, clean and relube these bearings. Unfortunately, the motor is so closed that it is impossible to spray anything in there and have it successfully reach the bearings.

You will need to turn the turntable over to work on it. The top aluminum plinth and the black bottom plastic cover sandwich the wooden frame, so the top plinth needs to be “blocked” up when upside down so that the tonearm is suspended above the work surface. Find some suitable materials to block up all four corners of the aluminum plinth when you turn the turntable over to disassemble it.

Here goes:

1. Remove the dustcover, platter and belt. Secure the transit screws so that the suspension is now in a rigid state.

2. Remove the tonearm weight and cartridge and set the tracking weight to zero. Get some low-stick tape such as blue painters tape and lightly tape the tonearm to the plinth so it doesn’t flop around when you are turning the turntable over.

3. Remove the black plastic cover (4 screws). The turntable motor assembly should be apparent in the left rear.

4. Undo the 4 wires that run from the motor to the adjacent white terminal block. Cut these wires – you will have to re-solder them later (sorry, you gotta do it).

5. Remove the entire motor assembly by removing the three brass screws that hold the three spring retainers. The motor assembly should now be able to be removed from the turntable.

6. Look at this photo:
17885
This is the top side of the assembly. The actual motor is the “dusty” red thing that is underneath the metal plate. Remove the brass conical pinion from the armature shaft that contacts the idler wheel. You can see this in the photo.

7. The motor is now ready to be disassembled. Turn the assembly over (the side you cannot see in the above photo). There are three 5mm nuts that hold the motor together. Remove these nuts and you will be able to remove the bottom motor cover. The armature will also come out as well (but not easily – take your time and worry it out as the armature shaft is otherwise “stuck” to the motor bearings).

8. If you’ve gotten this far, you are there. The bronze oilite bearings may or may not come out, but it doesn’t matter. Spray them with your favorite solvent (PPCC, WD40, etc., whatever!) and get in there with Qtips and pipecleaners to get all that gunk out. Don’t worry, you’re not going to hurt anything with any solvent spraying.

9. Relube the bearings / armature shaft with your favorite oil or grease. I used a very light white grease that was made by Shimano (bicycles) so I am probably setting myself up for another motor freeze in another 30 years!

10. Reverse the disassembly process in order to reassemble. Be sure to keep the motor assembly centered as you tighten the screws that hold the spring retainers – it will tend to pull to one side as you tighten.

Optional things that I did – look at all of the metal slider thingies that comprise the mechanism. All of that lube will be dried and you can see it. Relube as you see fit. I also took the opportunity to solder in new, higher-grade cables. Finally, I ran over the frame with 0000 steel wool and rubbed in some Howard’s walnut restorer.

One final note – my turntable has been sitting unused for the past 20 years. As such, the pressure from the conical brass pinion formed a “divot” in the rubber of my idler wheel so that the wheel “thumps” on every rotation. I know there are companies that will rebuild these but I’m too burned out to disassemble it again! If you put you turntable in long-term storage, remove the belt and push the idler wheel away from the conical pinion.

jwurbel
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by jwurbel » 15 Oct 2019 01:06

I know this post is old, but I followed it to the point where the cover is off and I believe I am looking at what is referred to as "the armature" which sits in the middle of the housing. However, I am not sure how to remove it. The above post states he "worried it out". Does anyone know how? It lifts to a point, but resists a total removal.

Thanks,

Jim

Coffee Phil
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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by Coffee Phil » 15 Oct 2019 18:33

Hi jwurbel,

I believe that is a typo and he means work it out. There is a set screw which has to be removed to get the capstan off of the motor shaft.

It should not be necessary to cut wires. There are screws in the terminal block to release them.

I like lacquer thinner to clean the bearings. I soak them and when they are dry I saturate the oil wick with sewing machine oil.

Here is a video of Criss Cuff doing the motor in an RCA 45 player. Like the Beogram 3000 motor it is a two pole induction motor. It is physically different but it will illustrate the concept:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB0cY8KY5Yo

Good luck with this. Even after the motor is clean and lubed it may take a long while to come to speed. There is a chronic issue with the rotor in this machine and some will show this issue even if clean and lubed.

I am searching for a little induction motor still in production from which the rotor can be harvested to use in these little B&O motors.

Phil
jwurbel wrote:
15 Oct 2019 01:06
I know this post is old, but I followed it to the point where the cover is off and I believe I am looking at what is referred to as "the armature" which sits in the middle of the housing. However, I am not sure how to remove it. The above post states he "worried it out". Does anyone know how? It lifts to a point, but resists a total removal.

Thanks,

Jim

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Re: Beogram 3000 lubrication

Post by Scorron82 » 17 Oct 2019 02:02

Phil,
C-frame style motors like those used for bathroom exhaust fans spin at the same speed and are cheap. I’ve been toying with the idea of adapting one to the Beogram 3000. Even if the speed is not dead on, the wonderful design of the Beogram will likely allow enough adjustment to run at the correct speed. I’ll let you know if I try it out.

Jim, the grease they used in those days can truly harden like cement. Try dripping in some rubbing alcohol and see if the motor comes apart more easily. That will usually dissolve the grease pretty quickly. And reading through those instructions: don’t forget to use a very small screwdriver to remove the set screws on the spindle (the piece that turns the rubber drive wheel) and pull it off before trying to disassemble the motor.

Sean

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