the home of the turntable

Music Hall Mmf-2.2

snap, crackle and pop

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby kolob » 15 Jun 2014 02:14

I have this table and love it i think is a little
Better the the debut carbon as the tonearm bearing and mounting
Mount are more robust and better 3 point anti-vibration feet
I I'm familiar with the project debut carbon and rega rp1
And for me I think in the price range the mmf is the best deck
But alwas use your own ears and judgement
kolob
member
member
 
Posts: 48
Joined: 21 Mar 2011 19:01
Location: salt lake city ut

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Lemur » 17 Oct 2014 20:05

Dear All,

Could any one share any opinion on this, please: would it make any sense at all to replace the Music Hall's original "legs" (soft, rubber-ish, wobbly, consisting of 2 interconnected parts) with solid metal (copper?) legs ending with nails? Or the original legs are soft on purpose, since the engine and the sub-platter are solidly fixed to the plinth, and "soft" legs are needed?
Lemur
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 Oct 2014 19:58

Russia

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Lemur » 17 Oct 2014 20:12

Sorry - maybe "feet" would be a more appropriate word.... (my question above) I am in the process of upgrading; so far only 1 upgrade: Acryl-It platter. And it has done a world of good: the sound is less "clouded," much more distinct, bass and treble are more clear. Sadly, the deepness of the scene or air have not improved - but am sure that a decent MC cart would do the trick!
Lemur
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 Oct 2014 19:58

Russia

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Jeff Aguilar » 17 Oct 2014 22:01

I would look at changing the cartridge before changing the feet. For me, changing the cartridge was a much bigger change than putting in the Acryl-It patter.
User avatar
Jeff Aguilar
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 10 May 2014 16:11
Location: Olympia, WA

United States of America

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Lemur » 18 Oct 2014 06:52

You are quite right! I think with any TT changing the cartridge is responsible for the biggest WOW-effect! However in my case I was studying the market and sought advice and listened to various cartridges (will buy Benz Micro MC Silver eventually, carefully having considered all pros and cons.)

However I first changed the platter to Acryl-It based on advice of Mr Hall himself (also advised by my dealer) who said that the pre-installed metal platter is magtenised and may ruin an MC cart! After I changed the platter I could hear the change: sound is more precise and even a bit louder, more "concrete." (However: the Acryl-It is thicker than the metal platter, VTA adjustment was necessary, and the 2 horizontal screws were not "evident" at the back of the tonearm.)

And on the subject of feet (as well as a special stand where the TT will be based) - I know from my previous experience with other turntables that they may also considerably alter (improve) the sound.

Now off to buy mini-pliers and a magnifying glass and will attempt my first changing the cartridge on my own! There is the first time for everything, isn't it? Am thoroughly afraid though... And the tonearm does not have a removable shell, which won't make the process easier.
Lemur
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 Oct 2014 19:58

Russia

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Jeff Aguilar » 18 Oct 2014 15:35

I did the same thing. First I changed the platter.

I agonized for months over which cartridge to try. I had never changed one before either. I ended up downloading some samples of different cartridges and played them through my tube amp to kind of get an idea of what different cartridges might sound like through my system. I was all set on getting the Ortofon Blue, then I thought I should increase my budget and get the Orange. After listening to those audio samples, I then thought I should get the Nagaoka MP-500, but that was really more than I wanted to spend. I am sure I would have been really happy with either of those. But after reading so many good reviews of the Denon DL-103r, a LOMC cartridge, I thought I wanted that. But that cartridge is really not made for the arm of the 2.2, so I decided I would give the Denon DL-301 mkii a try. Like I said, it took months of agonizing over which one to get. I ended up getting the cartridge I did not get to hear, I just went off reviews. Since I really have not heard any other cartridges in my system, I cannot compare it to any other cartridge. But, I am so glad that I did, what a difference it made in my system! I really enjoyed my system before, but the differences in sound stage, imagining, clarity and most surprisingly, the bass, made it worth every penny.

Jeff
User avatar
Jeff Aguilar
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 10 May 2014 16:11
Location: Olympia, WA

United States of America

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Lemur » 18 Oct 2014 16:30

Thanks for sharing!

I finally manage to change the cartridge - I chose Benz Micro MC Solver, this is a high-ooutput MC but my budget phono stage Cambridge Audio prefers high-output carts (although technically can work with low output ones too.)

The procedure was very scary: first one of the Benz Micro's bolts would not come out of the old shell it used to be mounted in and I risked breaking the body of the cart. Then the 2 nuts that came with the Music Hall's original Ortofon cart would not get screwed onto the Benz Micro bolts. This I managed by holding a nut firmly by pliers and screwing the bolt with a force. Finally the nuts would not fit into the Benz Micro from below as they should and I had to put them above, by turning the bolts upside down. (I really should get some nice cartridge mounting kits on EBay.)

But finally, after of course VTA adjustment and this other type of adjustment (forgot the word) where you adjust the angle of the cart against supplied table with 2 points marked on it, I really enjoy the sound I was accustomed to: having lots of space and air and having just "lots of sounds," many more tha any MM cart can provide.

Now the turn is for some decent stand, feet, maybe a speed box....

Do you - or does anyone? - have any experience with mats (some say that no mat is needed on Acryl It) and clamps? Are they needed really?
Lemur
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 Oct 2014 19:58

Russia

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Alec124c41 » 19 Oct 2014 17:40

You can experiment with DIY mats quite cheaply. Felt, cork, and leather are all easy to obtain and cut. A 12 inch silicon cake pan liner is another possibility.
You can also drill a 7.5 mm hole in the center of a hockey puck for a weight.

Cheers,
Alec
Keep them spinning.
User avatar
Alec124c41
vinyl engineer
vinyl engineer
 
Posts: 20929
Images: 76
Joined: 28 Oct 2002 04:24
Location: North of Toronto, Canada

Canada

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Jefferson670 » 21 Nov 2014 11:46

Hi everybody! I'm a bit of novice with turntables, but I'd love to learn more. I've also got a Music Hall Mmf 2.2, this summer. Now I'm looking for a better cartridge, since the one supplied keeps scratching my vinyls when played at normal weight (1.5g).

I saw that someone bought the Audio-Technica AT120E/T cartridge and it seems to have solid sound for the price. Then I went looking for a heavier counterweight, and the importer that sells them seems to have only 80g counterweights in their storage atm. Should I get the 75g or can I manage with the 80g?
Jefferson670
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 7
Images: 2
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 11:36

Finland

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Paraneer » 21 Nov 2014 13:10

Jefferson670 wrote:I've also got a Music Hall Mmf 2.2, this summer. Now I'm looking for a better cartridge, since the one supplied keeps scratching my vinyls when played at normal weight (1.5g).


Before I would start asking about another cartridge, maybe you should be asking why the current cartridge is "scratching" your records???

What exactly do you mean by this? No cartridge, let alone the supplied Music Hall Tracker should be doing this if properly set up. Is the cartridge skating across the record and if so, its an anti-skate issue. Or perhaps the TT is not properly level. But if a cartridge is firmly in a groove and playing a record, it should not be scratching it. Unless the actual diamond is so badly worn and then you could be damaging the records through excessive wear. But you say you just got this table in the summer so thats probably not the case.

Also, the recommended tracking force for your current TT/Cartridge combo by Music Hall is 1.7 - 1.75 grams; not 1.5 grams. You might want to increase VTF and recheck anti-skating and leveling before you buy a new cartridge to determine what the problem is first.
VPI Traveler V2, Ortofon Rondo Blue, Simaudio Moon 110LP
Technics SL-1400, Audio Technica AT-14sa, Pro-ject Phono Box S
Marantz PM15S2 LE, Oppo 103, Simaudio Moon 100D
Dynaudio Focus 260's & a REL T1 Sub
User avatar
Paraneer
long player
long player
 
Posts: 2097
Images: 26
Joined: 05 Feb 2011 03:59
Location: Twin Cities, MN

United States of America

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Jefferson670 » 21 Nov 2014 16:16

Yes, I should've explained that better. I can put up a photo of my own if necessary, but this is the only one I found with the same cartridge as mine: http://www.nutsabouthifi.com/wp-content ... 78x385.jpg

There's this metallic (?) part on the bottom of the cartridge that keeps rubbing the vinyl almost always when the counterweight is above 1 g (I also knew that 1.75 was the recommended one, but I didn't bother with it since it's unplayable for me).

I checked the anti-skating, but it made no difference. Also the playing level is pretty solid, a wooden shelf, it's definitely not the cause for the scratching.
Jefferson670
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 7
Images: 2
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 11:36

Finland

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Paraneer » 22 Nov 2014 01:49

Sorry, but when I click on your link, I cannot make out detail of the cartridge. But I can see enough of it to know that's not the cartridge the comes with a new Music Hall MMF 2.2. This table come supplied with a Music Hall Tracker that is built by Goldring. Unless Music Hall bundles them differently in your country.

Did you buy his table and cartridge new? Or did you buy it used and someone installed what appears to be an Ortofon cartridge. Either way I do not know what you are referring to as a metallic part on the bottom. Certainly cannot make that out from the pic you linked to. You may have to post a picture of the bottom of your cartridge.
VPI Traveler V2, Ortofon Rondo Blue, Simaudio Moon 110LP
Technics SL-1400, Audio Technica AT-14sa, Pro-ject Phono Box S
Marantz PM15S2 LE, Oppo 103, Simaudio Moon 100D
Dynaudio Focus 260's & a REL T1 Sub
User avatar
Paraneer
long player
long player
 
Posts: 2097
Images: 26
Joined: 05 Feb 2011 03:59
Location: Twin Cities, MN

United States of America

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Jefferson670 » 22 Nov 2014 13:15

Alright, I uploaded a few photos to the gallery (most came out blurry, but I hope you can make something out of these).

Now that I looked into it, the store that sold this to me said in it's description that it comes with a music hall tracker. Here's the link: http://www.vaasanykkosradio.fi/store/in ... ts_id=5705

But it came through a importer, so the I'm not sure who to blame here. All in all, the ortofon cartridge is a problem for me, and I'd like to know the answer to my original question.. unless I could get a replacement from the seller..
Jefferson670
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 7
Images: 2
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 11:36

Finland

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Jefferson670 » 22 Nov 2014 13:19

Oh and also, that is the cartridge that came with the turntable. It was bought all new.
Jefferson670
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 7
Images: 2
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 11:36

Finland

Re: Music Hall Mmf-2.2

Postby Paraneer » 22 Nov 2014 14:20

Thanks for the additional pics but still cannot make out the metallic part your referring to. It does look like the bottom of the cartridge is very low though compared to the stylus and cantilever. I can see where the cartridge is "bottoming" out on a record and causing damage.

To me this is totally unacceptable especially with a table that was purchased new just this past summer and came supplied with the wrong cartridge! You said you bought it from a store that admitted it should be the Music Hall Tracker. So why not box it up and demand full refund or a new TT with the proper cartridge? Why are you looking to replace the cartridge, shell out more money and solve the problem on your own? Make it the dealers problem to fix an unacceptable situation. Good luck!
VPI Traveler V2, Ortofon Rondo Blue, Simaudio Moon 110LP
Technics SL-1400, Audio Technica AT-14sa, Pro-ject Phono Box S
Marantz PM15S2 LE, Oppo 103, Simaudio Moon 100D
Dynaudio Focus 260's & a REL T1 Sub
User avatar
Paraneer
long player
long player
 
Posts: 2097
Images: 26
Joined: 05 Feb 2011 03:59
Location: Twin Cities, MN

United States of America

PreviousNext

Return to Turntables and Tonearms