Warped cantilevers - why?

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Tunathedog
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Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by Tunathedog » 28 Jan 2020 09:42

Hi All

I'm new to the forum (or haven't used it in living memory, anyway). I have a Linn Basik with original basik arm. For some time I've had the problem that the cantilevers on my needles start out straight, but after a few days of playing they are always at an angle (about 10 degrees, looking from the bottom). This keeps happening despite my changing cartridges and carefully leveling the deck.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Am I aligning my cartridges wrong? Is it a shot bearing in the tonearm? Some other adjustment I need to make? Or is it normal?

Thanks!

Caspar

sivagriva
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by sivagriva » 28 Jan 2020 10:08

Are your anti skating settings correct?

Pauw
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by Pauw » 28 Jan 2020 10:53

Anti skate on arms contain scales which on first inspection seem like a calibrated and widely uniform system. This is sadly not the case. They vary widely. Linn's arms tend to have strong anti skate systems ( I can't say this for all but some I have encountered seem to have this) . So simply setting anti skate as a dial in and go in will tend to produce more than is needed . This will lead to distorted cantilevers. I suggest that a system of assessing anti skate on a table by table requirement rather than dial in will help here. :D

Tunathedog
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by Tunathedog » 28 Jan 2020 11:44

Thanks, both. How do I tell if the anti-skate setting is correct?

GTH
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by GTH » 28 Jan 2020 14:23

There are a number of ways to check AS:
By ear; do channels sound balanced?
View how arm behaves while floating; which direction does it move if at all.
By using a test record.
And, as in your case, by viewing the degree of cantilever deflection (warping as you call it)
Adjust AS and see if your 10 degree deflection improved or worsened then adjust accordingly.

scho2684
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by scho2684 » 28 Jan 2020 14:33

Tunathedog wrote:
28 Jan 2020 09:42
but after a few days of playing they are always at an angle (about 10 degrees, looking from the bottom)
That is asking for a picture as I'm not sure whether I picture it correct in my head what you are trying to say here...
Not in a lifetime that AS can cause this...
Pauw wrote:
28 Jan 2020 10:53
Linn's arms tend to have strong anti skate systems
That doesn't matter, if AS is so strong that it deflect the cantilever (permanently apparently in this case) you also suffer from severe mistracking due to too strong AS, so its very unlikely that a hefty AS is the cause here...

lenjack
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by lenjack » 28 Jan 2020 15:06

scho2684 wrote:
28 Jan 2020 14:33
Tunathedog wrote:
28 Jan 2020 09:42
but after a few days of playing they are always at an angle (about 10 degrees, looking from the bottom)
That is asking for a picture as I'm not sure whether I picture it correct in my head what you are trying to say here...
Not in a lifetime that AS can cause this...
Pauw wrote:
28 Jan 2020 10:53
Linn's arms tend to have strong anti skate systems
That doesn't matter, if AS is so strong that it deflect the cantilever (permanently apparently in this case) you also suffer from severe mistracking due to too strong AS, so its very unlikely that a hefty AS is the cause here...
I disagree. If compliance is high enough, AS beinb too strong will do this. I've seen this.

Tunathedog
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by Tunathedog » 28 Jan 2020 18:10


lenjack
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by lenjack » 28 Jan 2020 19:18

Your image is not clickable.

Tunathedog
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by Tunathedog » 28 Jan 2020 21:25

Sorry about that. Having trouble accessing my Flickr account and I can't work out how to add an image otherwise, so adding it as an attachment.
Attachments
IMG_2918.JPG
(35.66 KiB) Downloaded 120 times

lenjack
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by lenjack » 28 Jan 2020 22:51

That is severe!

AsOriginallyRecorded
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by AsOriginallyRecorded » 28 Jan 2020 23:20

I too have seen cantilevers with quite dramatic bends in them. This has always been on cartridges inherited on turnables I have picked up, but the "story" if not the history is quite clear. Not knowing the history of the cartridge in my case does limit the possibilities, but it is quite clear that too much A/S, likely with too heavy a tracking weight, over time, will produce a bent cantilever. Testing the amount of A/S by the techniques already mentioned is important, along with a visual alignment of the stylus to the cartridge and record grooves from the nose of the cartridge. Assuming no user introduced bends by rough handling, the incorrect application of A/S and tracking weight become highly suspect. In most cases, the purchase of a new stylus, correctly installed is a relatively easy and inexpensive fix. Inexpensive being a relative term or course! :lol:

AsOriginallyRecorded
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by AsOriginallyRecorded » 28 Jan 2020 23:28

As long as you are astute enough to know when to stop, it is entirely possible (sometimes) to bend back mildly bent cantilevers by playing on a "sacrificial" album with A/S adjusted to the opposite direction. Sound quality will suffer of course, but possible, and you didn't hear that here! Your bend looks very mechanically induced and severe....perhaps accidentally inflicted while cleaning or a poor needle drop? I think a new stylus is called for here. :roll:

terry-a
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by terry-a » 29 Jan 2020 02:04

Wouldn't a bend that direction, if caused by excessive pressure on a groove wall, be caused by pressure on the inner groove wall? And doesn't that seem unlikely?

Does that look like scuffing on the plastic stylus body?

lenjack
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Re: Warped cantilevers - why?

Post by lenjack » 29 Jan 2020 03:17

You're right. That would be excess pressure on the inner groove wall. If it's an AS problem, it would be from not enough, as opposed to too much.

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