Cables......

snap, crackle and pop
Nuno Almeida
junior member
junior member
Portugal
Posts: 21
Joined: 07 Feb 2019 02:11

Cables......

Post by Nuno Almeida » 26 Jan 2020 20:25

Hey guys, got my hands on a new to Philips 212, odd thinking a year ago I was asking here for advice on my first turntable, and now I'm rebuilding my third one, I'm enjoyng the trip :)..., to bizness, my 212 is in need of a new pair of rca cables, main reason was a din plug on it, and I need rca, I don't really want to use adapters, I could just cut and weld a new pair of plugs but I'm opting to switch the cable, after reading trough many forum discussions (and trying a el cheapo rca cable, that did a great job of 50hz antenna), I come to learn that what matters most when choosing a cable is low capacitance and a good shield, I have acess to free Profibus cable and looking at the specs it looks good to me, is it a good idea?

https://shop.helukabel.pt/bus-de-dados/ ... seccao-064
the page has a download buttong with a pdf with cable characteristics

hebridean
member
member
Scotland
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 May 2018 18:10
Location: Isle of Lewis

Re: Cables......

Post by hebridean » 26 Jan 2020 21:32

I tried changing the Rca cable with some Van Damme which was supposed to be good, but i ended up going back to the original cable which thankfully i hadn't thrown out. I'd advise you tread carefully, and may have to try out a couple of options.

tlscapital
long player
long player
Belgium
Posts: 2154
Joined: 27 Sep 2015 14:27
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: Cables......

Post by tlscapital » 26 Jan 2020 22:27

As everything in the phono chain it's all a matter of combinations, conjugations and listener's preferences. My example; all the cables I had where given to me. The tonearm where still the original SME's in not so good shape and so I cut a pair of brand new still in box stiff (shielded) 'audio' cables I had. Snip one RCA's end and solder them to the SME tonearm 4 pin bar connector. Instant improvement heard. Due to the new RCA's evidently but I suspected the cables 'quality' for that as well.

From my preamp I used a so so shielded soft phono cable to run to the amp. I decided for the first time to purchase a same cable I used for my tonearm to test if I could hear any difference for best or worse. Guess what, yes there was a difference. Subtle but with my preference for the cheaper stiff shielded coaxial cable. It brought more clarity touch through that allowed some more dynamic. BTW my amplifications stages are of the 'neutral', 'clear' and high efficient kind. And I love that for that.

Tests and trials if one can afford is the best way to find out. Specs and advices won't give you a precise idea so much I have come to understand. And indeed it doesn't need to be pricey to prefer one's cable "performance" if ever one hears it. Mine costed $10 or so with the post from Poland included. And now my speakers are dead silent with the volume knob half way up (the loudest I listen to before distortions appears) and this is most satisfactory as it allows everything to be heard.

Pauw
senior member
senior member
Netherlands
Posts: 692
Joined: 01 Jun 2018 13:09
Location: Spinning round and round somewhere.

Re: Cables......

Post by Pauw » 26 Jan 2020 22:48

There is something about a Philips GA 212 ....Philips did a great job of engineering that table within the budget and as such it has a synergy that if you change something , you can unset the balance. Somehow this is not a table that takes well to "upgrades and replacements " in the audio parts.

tlscapital
long player
long player
Belgium
Posts: 2154
Joined: 27 Sep 2015 14:27
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: Cables......

Post by tlscapital » 26 Jan 2020 23:36

Pauw wrote:
26 Jan 2020 22:48
There is something about a Philips GA 212 ....Philips did a great job of engineering that table within the budget and as such it has a synergy that if you change something , you can unset the balance. Somehow this is not a table that takes well to "upgrades and replacements " in the audio parts.
OK I hear but the turntable's cables are in synergy with the cartridge and the preamp/amp at the other end. The turntable's synergy is more to do with the rest in and on the turntable. That's why I was referring to the phono chain combination/synergy...

Pauw
senior member
senior member
Netherlands
Posts: 692
Joined: 01 Jun 2018 13:09
Location: Spinning round and round somewhere.

Re: Cables......

Post by Pauw » 26 Jan 2020 23:42

I think you missed my point.....when Philips choose those cables .....they knew what they were doing.

Nuno Almeida
junior member
junior member
Portugal
Posts: 21
Joined: 07 Feb 2019 02:11

Re: Cables......

Post by Nuno Almeida » 27 Jan 2020 00:13

Pauw wrote:
26 Jan 2020 23:42
I think you missed my point.....when Philips choose those cables .....they knew what they were doing.
I'm sure they did, and honestly if it had a rca plug I woudnt change it, but something has to change, neither of my amps has din conectors, the options are adapters.. wich I don't like, welding new conectors, not really a great option due to having to divide the cable, or a new cable, having I acess to a few meters of free profibus cable, 30pf/m capacitance, 150mhz impedance, and braided tin copper has shielding, looks good to me, well I will give it a try, I was really hoping to find some cable I could get easy and cheap, and just the cable.

tlscapital
long player
long player
Belgium
Posts: 2154
Joined: 27 Sep 2015 14:27
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: Cables......

Post by tlscapital » 27 Jan 2020 00:19

Pauw wrote:
26 Jan 2020 23:42
I think you missed my point.....when Philips choose those cables .....they knew what they were doing.
No offense here but I don't question their knowledge. I question how could they know what cable will suit best the synergy between an unknown cartridge and preamp to chose the 'proper' cable upfront ?

And evidently, like all tonearms they do come with a cable. Now should it be relatively good, better or not so much depending on also what lies at both it's extremities... can only be told after.

So it's not a jugement on Philips specifically per say. It's only my tweaker's remark on the matter. And I totally respect those who prefer to keep their gear OG evidently. Even their cables and more so if they prove satisfactory.

BTW some also claim that cable differences beside shielding and capacitance is merely 'snake oil' or the bigot money waste for those who spend their big dollars in cables. More controversy on here to come... ;)

Alec124c41
vinyl engineer
vinyl engineer
Canada
Posts: 23460
Joined: 28 Oct 2002 03:24
Location: North of Toronto, Canada

Re: Cables......

Post by Alec124c41 » 27 Jan 2020 00:26

And doing anything to Rega turntable is sacreligious, because it takes away fro the "Rega sound." :lol:
Go ahead and change the cables. Low capacitance and good shielding are the prime concerns. The synergy is between the cartridge and the cables, and the table has little to do with it.

Cheers,
Alec

jdjohn
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 2799
Joined: 20 Sep 2015 04:14
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Cables......

Post by jdjohn » 27 Jan 2020 16:36

Nuno Almeida wrote:
27 Jan 2020 00:13
the options are adapters.. wich I don't like, welding new conectors, not really a great option due to having to divide the cable, or a new cable, having I acess to a few meters of free profibus cable, 30pf/m capacitance, 150mhz impedance, and braided tin copper has shielding, looks good to me, well I will give it a try, I was really hoping to find some cable I could get easy and cheap, and just the cable.
But won't you have to add new connectors to the new cable anyway? Why not add the new connectors to the original cable? Once you strip the cover off the cable and split the wires apart, just add heat-shrink tubing around the separate runs of wire up to the plugs. You could actually use the 'cable pants' version of heat-shrink to make it look better. Like this:
41AZD2EMhQL.jpg
(10.18 KiB) Downloaded 145 times
Having said that, finding the right size might be a problem. Just a thought.

AudioFeline
senior member
senior member
Australia
Posts: 610
Joined: 01 Feb 2016 11:05
Location: Melbourne, Australia.

Re: Cables......

Post by AudioFeline » 28 Jan 2020 09:59

Nuno Almeida wrote:
26 Jan 2020 20:25
...I could just cut and weld a new pair of plugs...
Replacing the DIN with RCA plugs is a cheap option, and if you are happy with the quality of the original cable then it should work well if you do a good job of it. BTW, in electronics components and wire are soldered, not welded.

Nuno Almeida
junior member
junior member
Portugal
Posts: 21
Joined: 07 Feb 2019 02:11

Re: Cables......

Post by Nuno Almeida » 30 Jan 2020 01:13

I'm going with the profibus option for now, halfway through the work, hard schedule this week, profibus btw isn't a brand, it's a standard, it's widely available, very common in industry, and like it is designed for industry use, you can get any brand and be sure it will be decent, I'm using from brand Lapp Kabel, it's what I had at hand, next a image of the original cable and the several layers of the new one, it's solid core but actually very flexible, and for this table it could have been rigid, well working on it, like I said difficult schedule this week, and also recap and led's on the buttons.
IMG_20200129_110211.jpg
original cable
(55.93 KiB) Downloaded 72 times
IMG_20200129_103933.jpg
braided tinned copper
(89.11 KiB) Downloaded 71 times
IMG_20200129_104019.jpg
aluminium foil
(95.72 KiB) Downloaded 71 times
IMG_20200129_104048.jpg
plastic...
(109.23 KiB) Downloaded 71 times
IMG_20200129_104139.jpg
solid core with .... fillers
(107.55 KiB) Downloaded 72 times
jdjohn wrote:
27 Jan 2020 16:36
But won't you have to add new connectors to the new cable anyway? Why not add the new connectors to the original cable? Once you strip the cover off the cable and split the wires apart, just add heat-shrink tubing around the separate runs of wire up to the plugs. You could actually use the 'cable pants' version of heat-shrink to make it look better. Like this:

Having said that, finding the right size might be a problem. Just a thought.
Shielding, i would have to separate the wires, and keeping a proper shield on the separate bit's would be tricky, could always add some aluminum tape..., well the capacitance of the new cable is a good bit lower has well, and the main reason......... I like to play with stuff and the new cable was free
AudioFeline wrote:
28 Jan 2020 09:59
Nuno Almeida wrote:
26 Jan 2020 20:25
...I could just cut and weld a new pair of plugs...
Replacing the DIN with RCA plugs is a cheap option, and if you are happy with the quality of the original cable then it should work well if you do a good job of it. BTW, in electronics components and wire are soldered, not welded.
I like the original cable, and I'm sure it would have done a great work, haven't tried it, like I said, I also like to play.
English isn't my first language, but I actually know the difference between welding and soldering, just in my language we use the same word(soldar) for both, and I don't always go trough the correct thinking process when writing this.

AudioFeline
senior member
senior member
Australia
Posts: 610
Joined: 01 Feb 2016 11:05
Location: Melbourne, Australia.

Re: Cables......

Post by AudioFeline » 30 Jan 2020 08:18

No offense was meant by my post. I've often thought that English would be a difficult language to learn, I respect those who try.

Nuno Almeida
junior member
junior member
Portugal
Posts: 21
Joined: 07 Feb 2019 02:11

Re: Cables......

Post by Nuno Almeida » 30 Jan 2020 14:17

AudioFeline wrote:
30 Jan 2020 08:18
No offense was meant by my post. I've often thought that English would be a difficult language to learn, I respect those who try.
None taken, I don't find English hard... to a level I can get the message across, correct English on the other hand, goes way above what I'm able, and I don't really try to be honest, I just want to send a message across, I don't pretend to be a language expert, not at Portuguese and even less at English.
Btw I work has a maintenance technician for a German company, and even though I lived almost 10 years at Nederlands, very close to Germany, German just sounds so much harder.

andybeau
long player
long player
England
Posts: 3974
Joined: 06 Jun 2013 20:47
Location: Coventry, UK

Re: Cables......

Post by andybeau » 30 Jan 2020 14:48

Nuno Almeida wrote:
30 Jan 2020 14:17
AudioFeline wrote:
30 Jan 2020 08:18
No offense was meant by my post. I've often thought that English would be a difficult language to learn, I respect those who try.
None taken, I don't find English hard... to a level I can get the message across, correct English on the other hand, goes way above what I'm able, and I don't really try to be honest
Nor does the majority of the UK :shock:

Post Reply