well tempered arm overhang set up

snap, crackle and pop
coltrain
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well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by coltrain » 24 Jan 2020 12:26

first would like to apologize for my non perfect English.
i have read several topics here regarding overhang , but still couldn't find a clear solution.
when i bought this turntable+arm ,i got instructions+ a Dedicated protractor.
from the beginning those instruction looks a bit strange to me, since they instruct to move the arm head-shell, without the cartridge on it, to the end of the circle ( enclosed photos).
what looks strange to me is that every cartridge has it's specific length, and you can also move it back and forward in the head-shell, so how the end of the headshell can be a fixed point?
then, to make things more complicated, i upgraded the tone arm , so the end of the new head shell is different.
didn't get a new chart.
can someone please help me with that?
maybe members that use the well tempered?
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Alec124c41
vinyl engineer
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by Alec124c41 » 24 Jan 2020 15:38

A 2-point protractor can be used with any arm.
With a 2-point protractor, set the stylus on the crosshairs of the outer grid, and square the cartridge to it.
Move to the inner grid, stylus on crosshairs.
If the cartridge angles toward the middle of the record, move it forward a bit, and start over.
If the cartridge angles away from the middle of the record, move it back a bit, and start over.
When the cartridge sits squarely in both grids, stylus on crosshairs, you are done.
When you have used a protractor, do not then try to adjust the cartridge to any other "overhang."

Cheers,
Alec

lenjack
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by lenjack » 24 Jan 2020 16:39

No need to apologize. Your English is quite good. :)

coltrain
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by coltrain » 24 Jan 2020 18:04

Alec124c41 wrote:
24 Jan 2020 15:38
A 2-point protractor can be used with any arm.
With a 2-point protractor, set the stylus on the crosshairs of the outer grid, and square the cartridge to it.
Move to the inner grid, stylus on crosshairs.
If the cartridge angles toward the middle of the record, move it forward a bit, and start over.
If the cartridge angles away from the middle of the record, move it back a bit, and start over.
When the cartridge sits squarely in both grids, stylus on crosshairs, you are done.
When you have used a protractor, do not then try to adjust the cartridge to any other "overhang."

Cheers,
Alec
i hope i understand what you are saying.
i know about the "crosshairs of the outer grid, and square the cartridge to it".
the thing is that according to the manufacturer instructions you need first to do the overhang as it says here in paragraph F, and then the thing parallel between the two lines as it says in paragraph D , which comes in the next chapter.
correct me if i'm wrong , but i think that you can make the parallel between the two lines in any overhang distance.
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coltrain
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by coltrain » 24 Jan 2020 18:13

sorry for the opposite attachments.
couldn't fix it even tried several times.

Uskoke
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by Uskoke » 24 Jan 2020 18:36

שלום מישראלי מיוני אמי דימיטריס

Alec124c41
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by Alec124c41 » 24 Jan 2020 19:52

If you gave a different protractor, then the instructions are different.
Those instructions for the 2-point are good. Using them will set the correct overhang for that alignment protocol, which will be different for a different protocol.
Pick one, and do not try to make it match anything else.

Cheers,
Alec

coltrain
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by coltrain » 24 Jan 2020 20:05

Alec124c41 wrote:
24 Jan 2020 19:52
If you gave a different protractor, then the instructions are different.
Those instructions for the 2-point are good. Using them will set the correct overhang for that alignment protocol, which will be different for a different protocol.
Pick one, and do not try to make it match anything else.

Cheers,
Alec
what do you mean by "Pick one".
do you suggest me to get another protractor?

Alec124c41
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by Alec124c41 » 24 Jan 2020 20:53

I am saying, use only one protractor at a time.

Cheers,
A;ec

coltrain
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by coltrain » 24 Jan 2020 21:11

sorry but i don't understand what you are saying.
i have only one protractor.
as i understand from the manufacturer instructions i need first to determine the distance of the stylus from the spindle ,or from the circle in my protractor.
then the tracking angle parallel with those two points.
my question was about the first step.
let me ask it in a different way.
is there a standard distance from the spindle center to the stylus ?

Alec124c41
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by Alec124c41 » 25 Jan 2020 00:16

You show a picture of a well tempered arm protractor.
This is a 2-point protractor.
Put that circle on the spindle.
Follow my instructions step by step. Nothing else.

Cheers,
Alec

GTH
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by GTH » 25 Jan 2020 00:20

The arm/integrated head shell shown in your posted photo appears to be different from what is displayed in your last photo of the instructional diagram.
Use the protractor in the photo you posted and follow Alec's instructions.
Ignore the instructions regarding setting the arm overhang to the circle around the spindle hole because as I pointed out
the arm/head shell arrangements are different.
Once you have the cartridge aligned to the protractor. Stop. You're done.

coltrain
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by coltrain » 25 Jan 2020 08:40

that what i wrote originally in my topic.
"i upgraded the tone arm , so the end of the new head shell is different.
didn't get a new chart."
that's the reason i'm not sure how to do the overhang and asking if there is another way to do it.
i really appreciate your trying to help, but looks like i don't understand your meaning.
as i said, from my testing, i can align to parallel the 2 points on the protractor at several distances of the stylus from the spindle.
so how can it be that several points are optimal?

Woodbrains
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by Woodbrains » 25 Jan 2020 11:11

coltrain wrote:
25 Jan 2020 08:40
that what i wrote originally in my topic.
"i upgraded the tone arm , so the end of the new head shell is different.
didn't get a new chart."
that's the reason i'm not sure how to do the overhang and asking if there is another way to do it.
i really appreciate your trying to help, but looks like i don't understand your meaning.
as i said, from my testing, i can align to parallel the 2 points on the protractor at several distances of the stylus from the spindle.
so how can it be that several points are optimal?
Hello,

It seems there is a breakdown in communication here!

1/ Do not bother setting or even thinking about overhang. This is a way of setting up a cart WITHOUT using a chart. It is no longer applicable here, since you do not have the original arm fitted.

2/ The chart you have is a 2 point protractor. It will work with the arm you have, or indeed any arm. It is NOT possible to have alignment at several distances of the stylus to spindle. Follow Alec's instructions above. You can only achieve a point where the stylus is exactly centred on the cross hairs and the cart/cantilever is parallel to the lines at one inner and one outer point. Then you are done. If you feel you are getting multiple correct settings, you are misunderstanding something. Follow Alec's instructions carefully, and make sure the cart/cantilever is parallel to the grid. You can get the needle to sit on the crosshairs at many places, but only at the one setting will the cantilever be parallel to the grid.

Mike.

coltrain
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Re: well tempered arm overhang set up

Post by coltrain » 25 Jan 2020 12:01

o.k thanks, i'll try it.
an additional difficulty is that my cartridge don't have Straight margins, so i'll have to look on the cantilever ,which is not so easy.
i just wonder that if the overhang is not important why most of protractors and manufacturers distractions deal whit it.

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