War of the affordable idlers

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babadockia
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War of the affordable idlers

Post by babadockia » 18 Nov 2019 13:08

I know that I will start a war of the idlers, but here it is. For my ears, a Dual 1219 sounds better than a Lenco 75/78 and the speed is really consistent and spot on in a quarter of a rotation whereas the Lenco needs at least 15-20 min to reach that speed and, besides that, it was drifting. I must add that both 'tables were degreased, cleaned and regreased accordingly by me.
I'm asking because I am sure that those idlers always come in pairs
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billshurv
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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by billshurv » 18 Nov 2019 14:59

Surely the whole point* of a vintage idler is the amount of time you can spend fettling and rebuilding it? Like an old car its a journey not the destination. So the discussion should be which one can you spend more hours on improving and upgrading :)

*May or may not be tongue in cheek here...

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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by babadockia » 18 Nov 2019 15:14

billshurv wrote:
18 Nov 2019 14:59
Surely the whole point* of a vintage idler is the amount of time you can spend fettling and rebuilding it? Like an old car its a journey not the destination. So the discussion should be which one can you spend more hours on improving and upgrading :)

*May or may not be tongue in cheek here...

My take is that, with the dual, one only needs to work on it once every, let's say, 5-7 years, whereas on Lenco, it's a neverending story. There is always something not quite as it supposed to be: the tonearm, the sled of the idler wheel, a screw that could be taken off, you know, these little things called "sound improvements"

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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by billshurv » 18 Nov 2019 15:15

Sounds just like owning an MG :D

babadockia
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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by babadockia » 18 Nov 2019 15:18

I love that toy of a car

cats squirrel
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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by cats squirrel » 18 Nov 2019 15:24

you must have a rogue Lenco. Mine (all eight of them) take less than half a revolution to get up to speed, which they maintain very well, as I have measured with a rotary encoder. As far as maintenance is concerned, I have greased/oiled just one of mine, and the rest have been left alone, and still perform very well.

I have no experience of Dual idler drive TT, but you are giving a very poor impression of the Lenco kind, which is not warranted (by my experience). As regards maintenance, again very little, if any, for the Lenco. What are you doing to the Lenco's in Sweden, maybe leave them to people who know what they are doing?

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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by babadockia » 18 Nov 2019 15:31

cats squirrel wrote:
18 Nov 2019 15:24
you must have a rogue Lenco. Mine (all eight of them) take less than half a revolution to get up to speed, which they maintain very well, as I have measured with a rotary encoder. As far as maintenance is concerned, I have greased/oiled just one of mine, and the rest have been left alone, and still perform very well.

I have no experience of Dual idler drive TT, but you are giving a very poor impression of the Lenco kind, which is not warranted (by my experience). As regards maintenance, again very little, if any, for the Lenco. What are you doing to the Lenco's in Sweden, maybe leave them to people who know what they are doing?

Why should I let them to people who know what they are doing? I can hold a screw by the right end, I know the difference between an allen key and a philips key and, to be honest, it's not difficul at all. This myth, with "people who know what they are doing" is for those afraid (and I don't want to use harsher words) of using their own hands

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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by cats squirrel » 18 Nov 2019 15:34

well, it doesn't sound like you know what you are doing with your Lenco, to be harsh. 20 minutes to get up to speed, come on. That's not a turntable, that's a postal service...

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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by babadockia » 18 Nov 2019 15:53

cats squirrel wrote:
18 Nov 2019 15:34
well, it doesn't sound like you know what you are doing with your Lenco, to be harsh. 20 minutes to get up to speed, come on. That's not a turntable, that's a postal service...
What is it to be done besides degreasing, cleaning, regreasing, aligning the motor, cleaning, priming and aligning the wheel, cleaning and, maybe, polishing the motor axle, cleaning and polishing the inner side of the platter, changing the v-blocks? And these are only the first ones, I am not getting into the detailed ones

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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by cats squirrel » 18 Nov 2019 16:04

for a start, don't grease the main bearing, it uses oilite bearings, it uses oil!

I have never aligned my motors, or any wheels, or polished the motor axle, and definitely never polish the underside of the platter, it needs friction to work properly. Maybe some of the mistakes you have made. And you say you know what you are doing.

I will confess to not liking the Lenco arms (except the quirky L70 and the purposeful L77). I use Jelco and Rega arms on my Lenco's, apart from the GL59, with the L70 arm.

You paint a very grim picture, a picture not shared by those who have their lovely Lenco's.

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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by babadockia » 18 Nov 2019 16:09

cats squirrel wrote:
18 Nov 2019 16:04
for a start, don't grease the main bearing, it uses oilite bearings, it uses oil!

I have never aligned my motors, or any wheels, or polished the motor axle, and definitely never polish the underside of the platter, it needs friction to work properly. Maybe some of the mistakes you have made. And you say you know what you are doing.

I will confess to not liking the Lenco arms (except the quirky L70 and the purposeful L77). I use Jelco and Rega arms on my Lenco's, apart from the GL59, with the L70 arm.

You paint a very grim picture, a picture not shared by those who have their lovely Lenco's.
😂 of course I've used oil, a synthetic one, and quite a lot, said to polish those parts. I paint a grim picture because that was what I saw comparing to the picture I'm getting from my 1219

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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by cats squirrel » 18 Nov 2019 16:35

then if you are sure you have a good example of a Lenco (I have my doubts) and don't like the sound of it, swap it for another Dual, I'm sure people will bite your hand off to swap a Dual for a Lenco. After all, À chacun son goût.

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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by babadockia » 18 Nov 2019 16:41

cats squirrel wrote:
18 Nov 2019 16:35
then if you are sure you have a good example of a Lenco (I have my doubts) and don't like the sound of it, swap it for another Dual, I'm sure people will bite your hand off to swap a Dual for a Lenco. After all, À chacun son goût.
Mais bien sûr, Monsieur, a chacun sa piece du paradis

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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by Chiltern » 18 Nov 2019 17:14

You are happy with your Dual, fine, that is your choice, not happy with the Lenco, get rid of it, you are obviously never going to like it.

There are thankfully many different turntables, and they will have their satisfied owners, it is one of the great features of the 'hobby'. I currently own 25 turntables, some considered classics, others have little appeal other than to me. They all make music in their own way, have different engineering, ages and values.

I would not want to imposed my views on anyone, I can recall very heated exchanges on this forum from a member convinced that their choice should be the only one and the rest of us should fall in line.

Alan

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Re: War of the affordable idlers

Post by babadockia » 18 Nov 2019 17:17

Chiltern wrote:
18 Nov 2019 17:14
You are happy with your Dual, fine, that is your choice, not happy with the Lenco, get rid of it, you are obviously never going to like it.

There are thankfully many different turntables, and they will have their satisfied owners, it is one of the great features of the 'hobby'. I currently own 25 turntables, some considered classics, others have little appeal other than to me. They all make music in their own way, have different engineering, ages and values.

I would not want to imposed my views on anyone, I can recall very heated exchanges on this forum from a member convinced that their choice should be the only one and the rest of us should fall in line.

Alan

My dear Sir, I embrace fully your opinion. But 25? I feel you brother

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