Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

snap, crackle and pop
Post Reply
apastuszak
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 123
Joined: 31 Jul 2019 21:46

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 03 Dec 2019 15:59

rewfew wrote:
03 Dec 2019 15:29
apastuszak wrote:
02 Dec 2019 18:28
I am now 30 minutes into trying to tape a piece of mechanical pencil lead to the end of the catridge and make sure it's perfectly perpendicular and am having no luck whatsoever.

What animal do I need to sacrifice and to what god do I need to do it in order to align a turntable cartridge?
I'm glad your mighty quest is vanquished. But, I just don't understand how even taping a little pencil lead to the front of the mounting base as shown in the picture could be such a monumental task. When you say the end of the cartridge, did you attempt to place the pencil lead at the very end of the stylus assembly? As pointed out, you can use any flat surface, front, side. The mounting area where you attach the cartridge to the headshell has a large surface area as seen in the pic. Thus my puzzlement. Anyway, again, glad your spinning records. Hopefully your next alignment attempt, if ever, is less stressful.
Yes, I attempted to place the lead at the end of the stylus. I couldn't see how I could get a piece of pencil lead at a perfectly perpendicular angle to the stylus and close to the protractor. If I were to mount it all the way up near the top of the cartridge, my perception of what's straight would change depending on the angle my head was looking at the pencil lead. I wanted the lead as close as possible to the protractor.

wolfie62
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 1230
Joined: 04 Jan 2017 15:47
Location: Birmingham

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by wolfie62 » 03 Dec 2019 16:19

I currently have 12 cartridges mounted to headshells, each one aligned. It never takes me more than 15 minutes to get a fine alignment.

One tool I use is a small, bright, LED flashlight. I pass the light over and around the cartridge and check the very well defined shadow. The shadow has to be aligned with the parallel grid marks. It’s easy and works. Even works for rounded body cartridges.

I have never experienced IGD since getting very good alignments this way, using the Conrad Hoffman Arc protractor, Lofgren B alignment, and DIN null points. And I’ve found that my cantilever is always straight, even during play, even with high compliance cartridges/styli. That owes to accurate antiskate settings and a very good tonearm.

rewfew
long player
long player
Posts: 1376
Joined: 08 Mar 2009 16:50
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by rewfew » 03 Dec 2019 17:58

apastuszak wrote:
03 Dec 2019 15:59
Yes, I attempted to place the lead at the end of the stylus. I couldn't see how I could get a piece of pencil lead at a perfectly perpendicular angle to the stylus and close to the protractor. If I were to mount it all the way up near the top of the cartridge, my perception of what's straight would change depending on the angle my head was looking at the pencil lead. I wanted the lead as close as possible to the protractor.
That is how I did my OM super. When you look directly down looking at the line of pencil lead next to one of the grid lines you can easily, and I repeat, easily see any deviation between grid line and pencil lead line without this gross change via parallax effect. Squinting with one eye or both. Your making this process about as difficult as can possibly be. It does not have to be as close as your alluding to. I've done this innumerable times with many carts and get excellent test record confirmation and playback of vinyl. This is an aid to accuracy, as most cartridge front's do not have a large enough area to compare to the grid lines and your cartridge sides may be obscured by the headshell. It's the same thing as a carpenter using a long level to check a long span to get an accurate level. It increases the comparison of two lines to be parallel together. You say you don't have close visual acuity. When you look down at the two lines to get parallel, a little bit of distance will negate the parallax effect.

apastuszak
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 123
Joined: 31 Jul 2019 21:46

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 03 Dec 2019 19:18

rewfew wrote:
03 Dec 2019 17:58
apastuszak wrote:
03 Dec 2019 15:59
Yes, I attempted to place the lead at the end of the stylus. I couldn't see how I could get a piece of pencil lead at a perfectly perpendicular angle to the stylus and close to the protractor. If I were to mount it all the way up near the top of the cartridge, my perception of what's straight would change depending on the angle my head was looking at the pencil lead. I wanted the lead as close as possible to the protractor.
That is how I did my OM super. When you look directly down looking at the line of pencil lead next to one of the grid lines you can easily, and I repeat, easily see any deviation between grid line and pencil lead line without this gross change via parallax effect. Squinting with one eye or both. Your making this process about as difficult as can possibly be. It does not have to be as close as your alluding to. I've done this innumerable times with many carts and get excellent test record confirmation and playback of vinyl. This is an aid to accuracy, as most cartridge front's do not have a large enough area to compare to the grid lines and your cartridge sides may be obscured by the headshell. It's the same thing as a carpenter using a long level to check a long span to get an accurate level. It increases the comparison of two lines to be parallel together. You say you don't have close visual acuity. When you look down at the two lines to get parallel, a little bit of distance will negate the parallax effect.
I'm sure I'm making this more difficult that it needs to be. But this is only the second alignment I have done in my life. I'm sure it will get easier as I do more.

rewfew
long player
long player
Posts: 1376
Joined: 08 Mar 2009 16:50
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by rewfew » 04 Dec 2019 15:46

apastuszak wrote:
03 Dec 2019 19:18
I'm sure I'm making this more difficult that it needs to be. But this is only the second alignment I have done in my life. I'm sure it will get easier as I do more.
Well, you've earned your purple heart with your recent trials & tribulations. I hope your next attempt is with an easier cartridge to align. I think this experience has cleared your learning curve. Good luck and most important, happy listening.

apastuszak
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 123
Joined: 31 Jul 2019 21:46

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 04 Dec 2019 16:08

rewfew wrote:
04 Dec 2019 15:46
apastuszak wrote:
03 Dec 2019 19:18
I'm sure I'm making this more difficult that it needs to be. But this is only the second alignment I have done in my life. I'm sure it will get easier as I do more.
Well, you've earned your purple heart with your recent trials & tribulations. I hope your next attempt is with an easier cartridge to align. I think this experience has cleared your learning curve. Good luck and most important, happy listening.
I think I get to align all over again. I played a few albums last night and i am definitely getting inner groove distortion. Which annoys me, because I returned the PRO S Stylus already.

jdjohn
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 2667
Joined: 20 Sep 2015 04:14
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by jdjohn » 04 Dec 2019 22:08

It might not be an alignment issue. Is it on all records? Did you re-calibrate (zero balance) the tonearm before setting VTF? You could try bumping it up another 0.25g. Stylus clean? If it gets junk on it, you'll hear sibilance.

apastuszak
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 123
Joined: 31 Jul 2019 21:46

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 04 Dec 2019 23:01

jdjohn wrote:
04 Dec 2019 22:08
It might not be an alignment issue. Is it on all records? Did you re-calibrate (zero balance) the tonearm before setting VTF? You could try bumping it up another 0.25g. Stylus clean? If it gets junk on it, you'll hear sibilance.
Stylus is clean. Just adjusted VTF. It was 0.25g too low. I bumped it up to the recommended 1.5g using a VTF scale.

I played 2 records after I did that, and they sounded fine. Will need to test more.

jdjohn
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 2667
Joined: 20 Sep 2015 04:14
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by jdjohn » 05 Dec 2019 15:20

It's amazing how much of a difference small tweaks can make. Setting up tt's is an OCD person's dream! But this is also why so many people "getting back into vinyl" are disappointed...they expect it to be 'plug-and-play', and sound great with little-to-no effort.

apastuszak
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 123
Joined: 31 Jul 2019 21:46

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 05 Dec 2019 15:29

jdjohn wrote:
05 Dec 2019 15:20
It's amazing how much of a difference small tweaks can make. Setting up tt's is an OCD person's dream! But this is also why so many people "getting back into vinyl" are disappointed...they expect it to be 'plug-and-play', and sound great with little-to-no effort.
It can be made very plug and play, if you want it to. If someone made an affordable turntable that takes a p-mount cartridge and is linear tracking, you're going to get pretty close to plug and play. No need to align the cartridge. No need to set anti-skate. No need to set VTF, VTA or SRA. Pretty much great sound out of the box without any tweaking.

jdjohn
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 2667
Joined: 20 Sep 2015 04:14
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by jdjohn » 05 Dec 2019 15:48

^^^This is true, but even those need to be serviced if coming out of storage, or not used for a few decades. I have a Technics SL-Q5, and recently, an SL-J2, both of which needed serious cleaning of old grease along the linear tracking 'path' under the cover. Also new tonearm belts. And even then, the stylus should be cleaned.

But you are right, those types are closest to PNP, and with a nice stylus, can sound REALLY nice. The specs on them are impressive, with rumble at -78db :shock: It's amazing that those models don't sell for higher prices, but I think people don't gravitate towards them since you can't really see everything in action, so don't get the entire vinyl experience. Those models are more like great big disc-mans :lol:

I was looking back to the beginning of your thread here, and saw you had your eye on an SL-Q5 8) If it's still available, you might want to grab it!

apastuszak
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 123
Joined: 31 Jul 2019 21:46

Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 05 Dec 2019 16:49

jdjohn wrote:
05 Dec 2019 15:48
^^^This is true, but even those need to be serviced if coming out of storage, or not used for a few decades. I have a Technics SL-Q5, and recently, an SL-J2, both of which needed serious cleaning of old grease along the linear tracking 'path' under the cover. Also new tonearm belts. And even then, the stylus should be cleaned.

But you are right, those types are closest to PNP, and with a nice stylus, can sound REALLY nice. The specs on them are impressive, with rumble at -78db :shock: It's amazing that those models don't sell for higher prices, but I think people don't gravitate towards them since you can't really see everything in action, so don't get the entire vinyl experience. Those models are more like great big disc-mans :lol:

I was looking back to the beginning of your thread here, and saw you had your eye on an SL-Q5 8) If it's still available, you might want to grab it!
I'm debating it. Right now I have more turntables than I can use.

For linear tracking turntables, I don't understand why there aren't new AFFORDABLE LT turntables. It's almost 2020. I'm sure someone could make a LTT with a minimal feature set for a cheap price. I found a Aiwa LX-770 at a thrift store for $10.00. It's kind of neat to play with. Just wish there were more styluses available for it, besides conicals.

Post Reply