Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

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apastuszak
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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 02 Dec 2019 02:28

I have ordered a mirrored Baerwald Protractor. I'll give that a try when it gets here later this week. It really sucks that you can't simple vinyl tools like this retail anywhere.

bernard1
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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by bernard1 » 02 Dec 2019 14:37

apastuszak wrote:
02 Dec 2019 01:01
bernard1 wrote:
02 Dec 2019 00:58
apastuszak wrote:
01 Dec 2019 21:34
Ok, this picture might point out my frustration. This is the OM10 cartridge I bought off of eBay:

https://i.imgur.com/jtiYoQm.jpg

Note how it's impossible to see the stylus tip at all. Starting to wonder if this is even a genuine Ortofon cartridge or a counterfeit.
Strange stylus indeed, as it should have a notch at the end :
Screenshot_20191202-015420~2.png
Probably not a genuine one.
It's genuine. Just new old stock, before Ortofon started to use the cutout.

https://i.imgur.com/vLtbJju.jpg
Very old new old stock, so, because the original OM10 stylus I bought in 1996 has the notch.

apastuszak
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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 02 Dec 2019 14:40

bernard1 wrote:
02 Dec 2019 14:37
apastuszak wrote:
02 Dec 2019 01:01
bernard1 wrote:
02 Dec 2019 00:58

Strange stylus indeed, as it should have a notch at the end :
Screenshot_20191202-015420~2.png
Probably not a genuine one.
It's genuine. Just new old stock, before Ortofon started to use the cutout.

https://i.imgur.com/vLtbJju.jpg
Very old new old stock, so, because the original OM10 stylus I bought in 1996 has the notch.
I sent a message to the eBay seller and they claim that these older styluses are better than the newer ones with the cutout. I don't believe that.

wolfie62
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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by wolfie62 » 02 Dec 2019 15:16

A great many TT have front panel controls, full auto features. Of my 10 tables, only 2 don't.

Here, 1980 JVC QL Y5F, (top) and 1977 Hitachi HT-463,(bottom):
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apastuszak
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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 02 Dec 2019 18:28

rewfew wrote:
02 Dec 2019 00:15
I have a Ortofon Super OM30. I use regardless for any cart, the old tape a length of mechanical pencil lead trick to a flat surface of a cart to increase the ability to check parallelism more accurately with the grid lines. On the front of the mounting base of the OM is a flat area. Tape the mechanical pencil lead there and when you stare down with glasses or magnifying glass you can get a good view of the pencil lead protruding away from the headshell. Checking then if one end or the other of the pencil lead is symmetrical at either end to the grid lines, parallax effect or not.
https://soundapproach.com/media/catalog ... rtom10.jpg
I look from the front or obliquely with a magnifying glass to get the stylus tip located on the crosshair on both nulls, then look down over the pencil lead to check parallelism, making adjustment as necessary, rechecking stylus to crosshair's. Maybe a family member or friend can do this if your eye's won't cooperate. If all else fails, maybe a pre-mounted cartridge like linked is the answer to unnecessary mental duress. Good luck, and no disrespect meant with my prior post. It just sounded like a Clark Griswold project, (Chevy Chase), especially seeing the old cart's removal condition.
I am now 30 minutes into trying to tape a piece of mechanical pencil lead to the end of the catridge and make sure it's perfectly perpendicular and am having no luck whatsoever.

What animal do I need to sacrifice and to what god do I need to do it in order to align a turntable cartridge?

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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by jdjohn » 02 Dec 2019 20:23

Since that stylus has the square snub nose, can you not align it to the grid (after first getting the diamond on the crosshairs)? Or, align the sides of the cartridge/stylus relative to the grid. Even if the sides taper a bit, just align the taper on each side relative to the grid. Start with the cartridge all the way forward, which will probably have alignment pointing towards the edge, then start sliding it backwards incrementally.

apastuszak
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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 02 Dec 2019 20:54

jdjohn wrote:
02 Dec 2019 20:23
Since that stylus has the square snub nose, can you not align it to the grid (after first getting the diamond on the crosshairs)? Or, align the sides of the cartridge/stylus relative to the grid. Even if the sides taper a bit, just align the taper on each side relative to the grid. Start with the cartridge all the way forward, which will probably have alignment pointing towards the edge, then start sliding it backwards incrementally.
I cheated. I went to Sam Ash and bought a Pro S cartridge that had the cutout. I used that to align the turentable and then returned it.

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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by wolfie62 » 02 Dec 2019 22:28

Far and away easier to use the Conrad Hoffman Arc protractor found in here. Once the stylus tip aligns on the arc for a full sweep (5 minutes) then you only use 1 null point to make parallel (5 mins) and you are DONE! No more trial, error, move, trial, error, move,.....

apastuszak
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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 03 Dec 2019 01:38

wolfie62 wrote:
02 Dec 2019 22:28
Far and away easier to use the Conrad Hoffman Arc protractor found in here. Once the stylus tip aligns on the arc for a full sweep (5 minutes) then you only use 1 null point to make parallel (5 mins) and you are DONE! No more trial, error, move, trial, error, move,.....
How do I figure out the inner groover radius and outer groove radius?

apastuszak
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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 03 Dec 2019 03:49

wolfie62 wrote:
02 Dec 2019 22:28
Far and away easier to use the Conrad Hoffman Arc protractor found in here. Once the stylus tip aligns on the arc for a full sweep (5 minutes) then you only use 1 null point to make parallel (5 mins) and you are DONE! No more trial, error, move, trial, error, move,.....
FINALLY!! Using the Conrad Hoffman Arc Protractor and my 18 year old son holding a flashlight, I was able to align the cartridge, and it sounds great! No inner groove distortion. Really no distortion along the whole record.

Thank you for the suggestion!

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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by wolfie62 » 03 Dec 2019 04:00

Glad it worked for you! I had the same “Eureka!” moment too!

Now, I use a Lofgren B alignment, DIN null points. Always sweet and clear.

apastuszak
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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 03 Dec 2019 04:02

wolfie62 wrote:
03 Dec 2019 04:00
Glad it worked for you! I had the same “Eureka!” moment too!

Now, I use a Lofgren B alignment, DIN null points. Always sweet and clear.
Multiple people have told me to use Baerwald for this tone arm, so I went with Lofgren A. What are the advantages of Lofgren B?

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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by wolfie62 » 03 Dec 2019 04:16

Lofgren B has the lowest average tracking angle error, and hence lowest average distortion of all the alignment geometries.

It is lowest distortion at the null points and between. It is only ever so slightly higher where it doesn’t matter and is not audible between lead-in groove and outer null point, where groove velocity is highest. I use DIN null points to push that inner null point as close to the spindle as possible, so you won’t have tracking angle error until you are into the lead-out groove. I have many records that are recorded to within a 1/4” of the label; no inner groove distortion because the inner null point (zero tracking angle error) is right there.

apastuszak
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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by apastuszak » 03 Dec 2019 14:31

wolfie62 wrote:
03 Dec 2019 04:16
Lofgren B has the lowest average tracking angle error, and hence lowest average distortion of all the alignment geometries.

It is lowest distortion at the null points and between. It is only ever so slightly higher where it doesn’t matter and is not audible between lead-in groove and outer null point, where groove velocity is highest. I use DIN null points to push that inner null point as close to the spindle as possible, so you won’t have tracking angle error until you are into the lead-out groove. I have many records that are recorded to within a 1/4” of the label; no inner groove distortion because the inner null point (zero tracking angle error) is right there.
That sounds wonderful. But it took me SO LONG to align this cartrdige, that I really don't want to mess with it, now that I have it aligned.

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Re: Turntable with all controls outside the dust cover

Post by rewfew » 03 Dec 2019 15:29

apastuszak wrote:
02 Dec 2019 18:28
I am now 30 minutes into trying to tape a piece of mechanical pencil lead to the end of the catridge and make sure it's perfectly perpendicular and am having no luck whatsoever.

What animal do I need to sacrifice and to what god do I need to do it in order to align a turntable cartridge?
I'm glad your mighty quest is vanquished. But, I just don't understand how even taping a little pencil lead to the front of the mounting base as shown in the picture could be such a monumental task. When you say the end of the cartridge, did you attempt to place the pencil lead at the very end of the stylus assembly? As pointed out, you can use any flat surface, front, side. The mounting area where you attach the cartridge to the headshell has a large surface area as seen in the pic. Thus my puzzlement. Anyway, again, glad your spinning records. Hopefully your next alignment attempt, if ever, is less stressful.

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