Used 80s turntables

snap, crackle and pop
Martykeen
England
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Used 80s turntables

Post by Martykeen » 13 Sep 2019 19:43

Hi all
I intended to digitalize some of my vinyl and bought a cheep zennon turntable
However I enjoyed listening to the records so much i have bought two 80s turntables Sony and a jvc.
I have a 250w preamp which I can turn fully up to number 11 whereas with my cheepy zennon any more than half volume blasts the neighbours windows out
Is this normal and should I buy a new turntable
Thanks in advance

JoeE SP9
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by JoeE SP9 » 13 Sep 2019 22:05

Please give us some model numbers.

]eep
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by ]eep » 13 Sep 2019 22:49

I suppose a 'zennon' is a TT with either a built in phono-amp or a ceramic cart, ie rubbish. The old Sony etc are proper TT's with an MM cartridge which need a separate phono-amp that takes care of the needed extra 40dB amplification and RIAA equalization.

lenjack
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by lenjack » 14 Sep 2019 01:21

The number you turn your volume control up to, means absolutely nothing. Pay no attention to it. Also, there is no such thing as a 250 watt preamp.

chgc
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by chgc » 14 Sep 2019 03:38

I’m guessing you have a Denon turntable with a built in phono preamp, which is switched ON. If so, there is a switch somewhere for turning the preamp on and off. It may be under the platter. Consult the owners manual.

If this is the case, that’s why the volume is louder than the Sony/JVC when connected to the same input. The old decks don’t have a built in preamp. They are meant to be connected to a phono input.

If above is correct, the next question is “Are you connecting the turntables to the right input?”
If the Denon has a preamp but it’s turned off or if it doesn’t have a preamp, it needs to be connected to a phono input, same as the Sony/JVC. If the new turntable has a preamp and it is turned on, it needs to be connected to a line level input (e.g. “aux”). If you want to connect the Sony/JVC to a line level input, you need to use a separate phono preamp.

Hope this makes sense. Sorry if you already know all this and I just don’t understand your question.

Martykeen
England
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by Martykeen » 14 Sep 2019 09:43

Thanks for the replies guys. A bit more info for you. The TT in question is a Jvc QL A51 the pre amp is a Arisron AX 910 150 w not 240 typo sorry.
The other TT which works the best is a cheap zennix no pre amp.
Both are plugged in to the same phono sockets.
The JVC is just a lot quieter than the cheap plastic zennox which I find supprising.
Any thoughts

nat
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by nat » 14 Sep 2019 13:26

Not to be rude, but proofreading before posting might clear up some confusion. You spell what I assume is the same turntable three different ways, none of which correspond to any turntable I know of. Denon seems to be the most likely company name, but when it is suggested, you continue to use Zennon/Zennix/Zennon. It may be that there is a table with one of those names that is distributed only in a few countries, and those of us elsewhere simply haven't heard of it, but who knows? Similarly, by Arisron, you may have meant Ariston, but maybe not.
The difference in volume is almost certainly a function of the Z table having a preamp stage built in so that it puts out a line level signal. It should be plugged into the Aux or other high level input, not the phono input. Plugged into the phono input, it probably is overloading the circuit so that there is distortion, and you are subjecting the signal to phono equalization (the RIAA curve) twice, which probably boosts bass and cuts treble noticeably.
Where the volume knob is not a reliable indicator of power unless the input signals are exactly the same as each other, and as the reference voltage. The amp puts out a certain amount of clean power. It doesn't know whether there is a large signal that is diminished by the potentiometer, or a small signal that is mostly completely passed by the potentiometer.

tep392
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by tep392 » 14 Sep 2019 15:35

I believe the phono preamp was optional on that integrated amp. Does yours have a sticker above the aux/phono input indicating you have it installed?

Martykeen
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by Martykeen » 14 Sep 2019 16:53

OK Sorry for the typos I was in a rush to go out.
I am now sat in front of all three items.
1 The TT that works the best is a plastic cheap one called Zennox the used 80s TT is a JVC QL A51
The preamp is a Arisron also bought used.
There is no built in amp in the Zennox.
All I really want to know is, should I buy another used TT or splash out a lot more cash for a new one
Thanks

lenjack
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by lenjack » 14 Sep 2019 17:43

Googled and found the Ariston AX-910. 40/40 watt integrated amp. Back panel shows one set of inputs marked
"aux/phono", so that gives credence to your question of whether or not the phono preamp is installed. OP insists on calling the AX-910 a preamp, when it is actually an integrated amp.

tep392
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by tep392 » 14 Sep 2019 18:06

Yep. I found interior photos on google showing an empty spot where the phono preamp can be plugged in.

ravelax
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by ravelax » 14 Sep 2019 19:26

Googling "Zennox turntable", I found multiple different variants of the same basic turntable also sold as Crosley and many other names. Whatever version of this turntable you have, it most certainly does have a built-in RIAA equalizer, also known as a phono stage or phono preamp.

If we are correct in assuming that your amp does not have such a device built in, although having a socket labelled "phono", then that's the reason why the cheap turntable outputs sound at a normal level, while you have to turn the volume to eleven to get any sound from your old turntables.

Now, that Zennox turntable, whichever variant it may be, is not worth keeping or using. It may even damage your records. Get a proper stand-alone RIAA equalizer/phono stage/phono preamp (as mentioned, these are three common names for the same thing) and plug one of your old turntables into that, then plug that into your amplifier, and you should have a much better listening experience.

lenjack
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by lenjack » 14 Sep 2019 19:43

The phono preamp will be a stand alone device, and should not cost you more than about $50 US. Your JVC turntable will plug into that, and the output from the stand alone preamp will plug into any aux connection on your Ariston integrated amplifier. Do NOT be at all concerned about the volume control setting on the amp when you play records. It is NOT, in any way, an indicator of sound quality.

KentT
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by KentT » 15 Sep 2019 03:22

Martykeen wrote:
14 Sep 2019 09:43
Thanks for the replies guys. A bit more info for you. The TT in question is a Jvc QL A51 the pre amp is a Arisron AX 910 150 w not 240 typo sorry.
The other TT which works the best is a cheap zennix no pre amp.
Both are plugged in to the same phono sockets.
The JVC is just a lot quieter than the cheap plastic zennox which I find supprising.
Any thoughts
Very few preamplifiers have any kind of power amplifier built in (the few which do have less than 15 watts/channel, as in things like McIntosh C26-C28). The wattage rating you're seeing is what it consumes from the AC outlet, not output power. It appears your amplifier does not have a phono preamp installed, so your JVC is so quiet. It needs a MM capable phono preamp with RIAA, your plastic turntable uses a ceramic which does not need one, and is somewhat rubbish.

Martykeen
England
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Re: Used 80s turntables

Post by Martykeen » 15 Sep 2019 09:01

Many thanks for your replies so the issue lies with my amp and not my jvc which I can deal with

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