Grace G704 / G714 Lateral Resistance

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Big_T
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Grace G704 / G714 Lateral Resistance

Post by Big_T » 24 Aug 2019 00:41

Hello,

For owners of the Grace G704 / G714: when you move the tonearm around especially left and right do you feel any resistance?

When I first got the arm about 15 years ago I seem to remember there being a slight resistive tension when moving the arm around.

The reason I'm asking is: the oil that was in there has since dryed up or possibly dripped out due to poor transporting so I have recently refilled.

I have refilled the Oil cup with 500,000cst silicone oil and it still feels very loose, as loose as when the oil cup was empty. I'm wondering if I have filled the oil incorrectly or is it supposed to feel loose? I unscrewed the jewel bearing and also removed the cap that was secured with two small screws and poured between 0.25 to 0.3ml directly into the oil cup, then screwed it back together. The viscosity of the oil I have acquired seems more viscous than honey. It seems if I had a spoonful it would take a very long time (if ever) to drip off.


Best,

T

jdjohn
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Re: Grace G704 / G714 Lateral Resistance

Post by jdjohn » 24 Aug 2019 19:02

I can double-check mine later, but as I recall, it moves pretty freely. I love their looks 8) and they good as well. I just wish they had anti-skate.

Big_T
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Re: Grace G704 / G714 Lateral Resistance

Post by Big_T » 26 Aug 2019 03:33

jdjohn wrote:
24 Aug 2019 19:02
...I just wish they had anti-skate.

I thought that the unipivot and oil damping helped with the anti-skate?

I must say mine tracks perfectly and has never skated with or without oil.

They do look cool :) I love the sound from my g704 but I must say I don't have much experience to compare with other arms.

jdjohn
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Re: Grace G704 / G714 Lateral Resistance

Post by jdjohn » 26 Aug 2019 15:21

Big_T wrote:
26 Aug 2019 03:33
I thought that the unipivot and oil damping helped with the anti-skate?

I must say mine tracks perfectly and has never skated with or without oil.

They do look cool :) I love the sound from my g704 but I must say I don't have much experience to compare with other arms.
I wondered as well about unipivot and damping helping with AS, but I couldn't find any research to support that notion. If we really think about the lateral pressure that AS provides, there is simply no such force present on this arm. And it is not alone...there are several tonearms that don't have AS. And there are unipivots that DO have AS. The prevailing consensus is that when using a higher VTF, of say 2g+, AS becomes less of a factor. Heavier, lower-compliance cartridges are better in this situation as well.

On which turntable do you have yours mounted? I had to make a home-made armboard/plate for mine when mounted to a Logic DM-101.

Big_T
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Re: Grace G704 / G714 Lateral Resistance

Post by Big_T » 07 Sep 2019 04:44

jdjohn wrote:
26 Aug 2019 15:21

I wondered as well about unipivot and damping helping with AS, but I couldn't find any research to support that notion. If we really think about the lateral pressure that AS provides, there is simply no such force present on this arm. And it is not alone...there are several tonearms that don't have AS. And there are unipivots that DO have AS. The prevailing consensus is that when using a higher VTF, of say 2g+, AS becomes less of a factor. Heavier, lower-compliance cartridges are better in this situation as well.

On which turntable do you have yours mounted? I had to make a home-made armboard/plate for mine when mounted to a Logic DM-101.
I have mine mounted on a Technics Sp10 MK2 and it fits quite nicely and sounds good. I mentioned before that it tracks perfectly but the more I use it the more I do notice one thing:

On some records, only some, near the middle tracks sometimes I will hear some distortion and a bit of volume fade on the right channel, similar to inner groove distortion but more pronounced. When I lift the tonearm up off the record it feels like it is being released from a lateral force spring, like the stylus was bending. I'm not sure if this is common with other tonearms.

That DM-101 seems like a really nice table, I know cosmetics are not supposed to matter, but I'm sure that setup with the grace looks really good :)

jdjohn
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Re: Grace G704 / G714 Lateral Resistance

Post by jdjohn » 08 Sep 2019 00:59

I think what you're hearing is the result of no anti-skate. Skating force pulls the needle towards the center, leaving the right channel groove with insufficient contact. Obviously anti-skate pulls the tonearm towards the outer edge to compensate for the skating force. The middle tracks (between the null points) are where the cartridge alignment is out most, so the mistracking from lack of anti-skate is showing itself. A heavier cartridge and/or more VTF might help.

BTW, nice turntable! =D> I have an SP-25, but with the stock ATP-12T arm.

Big_T
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Re: Grace G704 / G714 Lateral Resistance

Post by Big_T » 15 Sep 2019 02:27

jdjohn wrote:
08 Sep 2019 00:59
I think what you're hearing is the result of no anti-skate. Skating force pulls the needle towards the center, leaving the right channel groove with insufficient contact. Obviously anti-skate pulls the tonearm towards the outer edge to compensate for the skating force. The middle tracks (between the null points) are where the cartridge alignment is out most, so the mistracking from lack of anti-skate is showing itself. A heavier cartridge and/or more VTF might help.

BTW, nice turntable! =D> I have an SP-25, but with the stock ATP-12T arm.
Actually after further testing the sound problem was a connection issue ( how embarrassing) .

For the lateral tension it happens in about 1 out of 8 records played regardless of the intensity of music. It might be effecting the sound but I cannot really tell even with headphones. Anyway it is what it is as I see no way to remedy it other than increasing the tracking force or changing the cartridge in hopes for a change.

I'll just keep spinning records and enjoying the system. :D

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