SME 3009....versions?

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62vauxhall
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SME 3009....versions?

Post by 62vauxhall » 25 Jun 2019 00:24

Not having had to contend with separate tonearms before, I'm puzzled.

A 3009 was described to me as a II Improved yet it has a detachable headshell. I read 3009 Series II Improved headshells were fixed.

And I've seen a reference to a 3009 S2. Is that a different version again or just another way of writing Series II?

I guess I'm asking what versions of SME 3009's had detachable headshells.

I was hoping to learn was the maximum cartridge weight the arm could handle just as it comes in the box - as in with no additional counterweight.

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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by Sunwire » 25 Jun 2019 00:41


62vauxhall
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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by 62vauxhall » 25 Jun 2019 04:12

Thanks, had already scanned through the link as best as my old iphone permitted which was not well enough. Now using my home PC, I can open the whole thing.

There are more uploads for those arms than I would have imagined.

So it looks like the arm in question is 3009 Series II S2.

No mention made that I can see re cartridge weight restrictions so it looks like I'm good to go with the 5.5 gram one I planned on using.

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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by Pikey » 25 Jun 2019 09:25


Solist
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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by Solist » 25 Jun 2019 12:28

Dont forget that there were also models made only for the Japanese market. Some of those managed to migrate to Europe/USA.

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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by totem » 25 Jun 2019 17:17

Solist wrote:
25 Jun 2019 12:28
Dont forget that there were also models made only for the Japanese market. Some of those managed to migrate to Europe/USA.
If some are wondering just what version that might be, the R series was a Japan domestic product which
mirrored some of the attributes of the series I.

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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by alainleroy » 28 Jun 2019 18:19

62vauxhall wrote:
25 Jun 2019 00:24
Not having had to contend with separate tonearms before, I'm puzzled.

A 3009 was described to me as a II Improved yet it has a detachable headshell. I read 3009 Series II Improved headshells were fixed.

And I've seen a reference to a 3009 S2. Is that a different version again or just another way of writing Series II?

I guess I'm asking what versions of SME 3009's had detachable headshells.

I was hoping to learn was the maximum cartridge weight the arm could handle just as it comes in the box - as in with no additional counterweight.
Hello,
if it is an Improved, there are 2 models, one with a fixed headshell, ( ND or Non Detachable headshell )
the other has a detachable headshell named " S2" and common to the old SME 3009 Series II
I, too, made this confusion a few years ago
http://www.smetonearms.com/index.php?ma ... 20a&page=3
@lain

62vauxhall
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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by 62vauxhall » 29 Jun 2019 04:29

alainleroy wrote:
28 Jun 2019 18:19
62vauxhall wrote:
25 Jun 2019 00:24
Not having had to contend with separate tonearms before, I'm puzzled.

A 3009 was described to me as a II Improved yet it has a detachable headshell. I read 3009 Series II Improved headshells were fixed.

And I've seen a reference to a 3009 S2. Is that a different version again or just another way of writing Series II?

I guess I'm asking what versions of SME 3009's had detachable headshells.

I was hoping to learn was the maximum cartridge weight the arm could handle just as it comes in the box - as in with no additional counterweight.
Hello,
if it is an Improved, there are 2 models, one with a fixed headshell, ( ND or Non Detachable headshell )
the other has a detachable headshell named " S2" and common to the old SME 3009 Series II
I, too, made this confusion a few years ago
http://www.smetonearms.com/index.php?ma ... 20a&page=3
@lain
Yes, I have determined it is a Series II Improved S2. Definitely a Series II and definitely has a removable headshell.

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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by medwaybeat » 01 Jul 2019 15:54

Model 3009
Series II Improved = fixed headshell
S2 Improved = detachable headshell

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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by goatbreath » 01 Jul 2019 17:42

I have 2 S2 arms with detachable headshell,I like them..
One came with the 110 gram counterweight,the other with the 130 gram counterweight both screw on to a threaded stub..
The Wayrod is seperate from the counterweight and can be adjusted to help the knife edges keep in balance on the Improved Models..
That's how I tell them apart..

Just as an aside..
3 superglued 10 pence pieces =19.5 grams plus a wee bit blu tack can attach the extra weight centrally to the back of the counterweight in a non permanent way, if using a heavier more robust headshell it can get the counterweight closer to the pivot..
I think the arm sounds better this way..Less Vague..Some headshell/cartridge combos are lighter..
Getting the mass nearer the pivot in my opinion again improves the sound..Less coins can be used..
Some folk may think I am mad..It doesn't cost much to try it..
Best to use a proper stylus weighing gauge when doing this of course..

When the improved S2 came out 1972 or around then they were 9.5 grams effective mass..
This changed later on and I think the mass went up to 12.5 grams..

The Geometry was also revised..

I'm not sure if both changes were done together or separately..
So there are 2 or 3 versions of the S2 Improved also just to confuse matters..
You can identify this stuff by your serial number though,or the Geometry change at least..

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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by pivot » 01 Jul 2019 19:58

goatbreath wrote:
01 Jul 2019 17:42
.......

When the improved S2 came out 1972 or around then they were 9.5 grams effective mass..
This changed later on and I think the mass went up to 12.5 grams..

........
Agree on the geometry change. See the tonearm database here on VE for the correct serial numbers for the change.


On the effective mass, you might be confusing the Series II improved with either the older Series II "not improved" or the 3009 R (or it's slightly more well endowed brother the 3010 R). The "R" models were originally made with stainless steel arm tubes, a few even gold plated, for the Japanese market where audiophiles wanted higher mass arms to match SPUs and other low compliance cartridges. I have never personally seen an "R" in the wild, but understand some were available in the USA market. Again - see the tonearm database here.

https://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_database.php

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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by goatbreath » 01 Jul 2019 22:06

pivot wrote:
01 Jul 2019 19:58
goatbreath wrote:
01 Jul 2019 17:42
.......

When the improved S2 came out 1972 or around then they were 9.5 grams effective mass..
This changed later on and I think the mass went up to 12.5 grams..

........
Agree on the geometry change. See the tonearm database here on VE for the correct serial numbers for the change.


On the effective mass, you might be confusing the Series II improved with either the older Series II "not improved" or the 3009 R (or it's slightly more well endowed brother the 3010 R). The "R" models were originally made with stainless steel arm tubes, a few even gold plated, for the Japanese market where audiophiles wanted higher mass arms to match SPUs and other low compliance cartridges. I have never personally seen an "R" in the wild, but understand some were available in the USA market. Again - see the tonearm database here.

https://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_database.php

From what I know,the non Improved pre 1972 was around 12.5 grams..

The later R model around the same effective mass,I think R was for revised,was it not basically just a reissue of the Series II pre improved,just tarted up a little..? ..The same weight arrangement with the wayrod on the counterweight.

The S2 was 9.5 grams..The Detachable one.I have a couple..

I read somewhere they discontinued the S2 Detachable Model because people were saying the Series II Pre Improved was liked better..Therefore the R was born..
Also the 1970s was full of high compliance moving magnets,when compliance started coming down when Moving Coils came into fashion..The R/Original Series II reissue made more sense..

I was born in 1968,so around the early 80s,I still loved music but I played it on some pretty rough gear.,
that was all that was available..
My Father was more an Audio Vandal than an Audiophile..
It was the early 1990s when I got my first SME,a used one..The Non Detachable one..
So i wasn't around to know what happened in the early 80s,
so that stuff is from the internet on the S2 being replaced or discontinued..
I know there is a lot of untruths on the internet.So i may be very wrong on the above.. :)

The non detachable 6.5 grams..The one I owned maybe had a problem,it didn't track vertically too well
and didn't sound great..It was a very frisky thing prone to mistracking very easily..
I was trying to use a Shure M91 ED in it,which should have been a good match..
Back in those days it was a Shure stylus too,though probably a Mexican one,Hi Track in red writing on the front..

I had a Series III s for about 20 years too..Good for higher compliance cartridges..
I preferred it to my Series II non detachable..
I don't think I had a very good non detachable though..

I've never had the money for the Series V or IV..
Or any of the other ones really either..

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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by 62vauxhall » 03 Jul 2019 03:38

Will a 3009 S2 have the characters "S2" on it somewhere?

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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by goatbreath » 03 Jul 2019 05:14

I can't see one on the top side of a mounted 3009 S2.
I don't think it is on the serial number either,located on the bottom of the Base..
The counterweight is the real way to tell a series II from the Series II improved models..

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Re: SME 3009....versions?

Post by 62vauxhall » 03 Jul 2019 15:48

Well, I'm unable to get where the arm is for a week or so. Tonight I'm leaving on a road trip for a few days. Kind of a related reason - small town used record scrounging.

I'll take some pics when I get back then compare to the PDF's in those posted links. Will likely post them in this thread as well.

There's something rememeniscently British about SME's model designations.

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