Technics sp10 or clearaudio

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mudpy
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Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by mudpy » 14 Jun 2019 23:51

Hi guys just need your imput
Thinking in buying either a technics sp10 or clearaudio which one do you guys recommend for better sound
Thank you

banerjba
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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by banerjba » 15 Jun 2019 02:44

Which Clearaudio? Even the entry level Concept is great sounding. Also different drive systems and arms. SP10 is direct drive - great mid range on these high torque designs but even a cheap Clearaudio table is clean, tight at the extremes and has really black backgrounds.

I assume the SP10 is not the new one which means it is likely decades old versus a Clearaudio table which has only been sold in Canada for about 15 years or so. If it is one of the higher Clearaudio tables, it will be in a different league than the Sp10. Both great tables but kind of polar opposites.

mudpy
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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by mudpy » 15 Jun 2019 13:41

Hi im looking at the clearaudio concept with the carbon tonearm and yes the sp10 is the vintage one with the 100 tonearm

mudpy
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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by mudpy » 15 Jun 2019 13:42

Also any places in the GTA that would service the sp10 if needed?
Thank you

banerjba
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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by banerjba » 15 Jun 2019 14:22

Bay Bloor Radio has an excellent technical department and sell Technics.

jdjohn
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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by jdjohn » 15 Jun 2019 15:47

Hi. I have a Clearaudio Concept with the carbon arm and MC cartridge. Although I have never had an SP10, I do have other vintage direct drive (and belt and idler) turntables. Although the CAC w/MC sounds very good, it is currently sitting on the floor gathering dust.

Here are a couple of reasons why:
- It is subject to skipping with nearby footfalls. I think it overly sensitive due to the magnetic tonearm bearing. My floor is a poured slab with floating engineered snap-and-click hardwood, so should be relatively immune to footfalls. I use a quite heavy rack, and there is an isolation platform on top, so again, should be immune to this issue. Of course from across the room there is no problem. It is only when walking close to the rig that it can skip. I think a secured wall-mount shelf would be the way to go for avoiding the issue.
- Speed and anti-skate adjustments are done on the underside of the chassis with the CAC, so you basically have to let it hang off the edge of your rack (or a table) to access the adjustment points, all the while balancing it so it doesn't tilt too much. I used a strobe disk to set the speed, and it was quite a pain to adjust it underneath the chassis. For a while I was turning the wrong screw (which is difficult to access). There are two holes, and they aren't marked, so you have to look in the owners manual and be careful to orient yourself while looking upside down at the holes. It took several attempts to get the speed set just right. I didn't touch the anti-skate, so have to hope it is correct. There is no calibrated dial or gauge to use as a guide...just a big slotted screw. In theory, once these are set, you should be good, but I really prefer topside adjustments.

Other than those things, I like the CAC. It does sound really good, but I'm not sure if it's the turntable, or the nice MC cartridge that helps most with the sound. I would personally not bother with the Concept MM cartridge. On the inside, it is basically an AT95, but has a nicer stylus.

I certainly haven't given up on mine. In fact, I need to hook it back up and give it a spin soon because I do like the sound. I want to try a different cartridge on it just to see what difference it makes, but I guess I'll have to choose one with a similar anti-skate value as the stock Concept MC, since I don't want to be guessing on how much to adjust.

mudpy
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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by mudpy » 15 Jun 2019 20:59

Thanks for the input

tlscapital
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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by tlscapital » 15 Jun 2019 23:01

jdjohn wrote:
15 Jun 2019 15:47
Hi. I have a Clearaudio Concept with the carbon arm... ...currently sitting on the floor gathering dust.

Here are a couple of reasons why...
Huh, that's much more than a couple of reasons. More like a load ! I don't think of myself being prejudiced as such, but all those settings to be done from the underside of the chassis to spare the "nude" top plate side is just not for me.

Not only do I not like it's "soft" design appearance all in rounds, polished alloy and satin melamine but I am also certain that visually it won't age/wear well even if it still performs as it should. That which I can believe it is doing.

Offered the choice I would go for the "old" SP10 that I read many praise of. My only concern would be the tonearm. That could be replaced though. Saying that as an ex direct drive turntable man converted 8 years ago to belt drive :roll:

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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by cafe latte » 15 Jun 2019 23:17

The sp10mk2 in good condition is an amazing turntable, unlikely any belt will be as speed stable or smooth unless you spend a heap of money. Issue is getting or making a good plinth. And a good arm, motor unit is amazing.
Chris

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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by KentT » 16 Jun 2019 03:13

For my needs, my use case, Technics SP-10 wins over any Clearaudio anything. As I demand honest build, engineering, and consistent and reliable performance. Ask anybody who cuts records for a living. Chances are, they don't own ClearAudio. Nobody knows how their records should sound better than the people who master them, plate them, press them, approve them to be pressed. Technics adds nothing, subtracts nothing. Likewise the broadcast engineer and operator. The SP-10 Mk II is good enough to be my main and only turntable for the rest of my life, with proper plinth, tonearm and headshell options.

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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by banerjba » 16 Jun 2019 03:22

tlscapital wrote:
15 Jun 2019 23:01
Not only do I not like it's "soft" design appearance all in rounds, polished alloy and satin melamine but I am also certain that visually it won't age/wear well even if it still performs as it should. That which I can believe it is doing.
Styling is a personal choice for sure. I love the clean classic design and superb German build quality.

In term of foot falls, like a Rega or Linn, this table should be wall mounted to put on a stiff low turntable rack. It does not do well on tall racks which also true for Linns and Regas.

Cartridge wise, it loves AT cartridges, I used the Concept MM which is a AT95e but vastly better and bigger sounding. I use a 440 mLA now that my Concept MM is at the end of its life.

I also use a bit of extra DYI isolation using a heavy block of bamboo and some rubber shelf paper.

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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by Sunwire » 16 Jun 2019 05:10

I have never owned or seen a Clearaudio turntable.
I really know nothing about them.
I own four Technics SP10Mk2s, two of them with the SH-10B3 "obsidian" plinths.
I absolutely love them.
I also own one of the EPA-100 tonearms.
This is a beautiful arm with many desirable features, including built-in magnetic/oil damping.
It has some limitations of which you should be aware.

1) the arm pivot bearings are synthetic ruby and very fragile. Base on my reading, it's not uncommon for the bearings to be damaged, which requires them to be replaced, which is a tricky job I think few people would feel confident to undertake since it's easy to cause cosmetic damage to the arm when removing and adjusting the bearings. The bearings on my arm were damaged when I received it and I'm not currently using it. I've been planning to get them replaced, but haven't done it yet.
If you're thinking of buying one, I would STRONGLY recommend you test it yourself, in person, to make sure the bearings are in good condition. Otherwise, budget to have them replaced.

2) Although the arm has height adjustment on the fly, it is limited to 6mm (the arm post can go up or down 28mm, however, by loosening a thumbscrew). And although the arm has adjustable damping to accommodate a range of cartridge compliances, that range is limited to about 5-25 x 12 x 10-6 cm/dyne at 100 Hz. It's probably best to stay close to the middle of the range for the most effective damping. And, unless you get the auxiliary counterweight (which is EXTREMELY rare), the arm is designed for a limited range of cartridge weights: 5-10 grams. You can fudge this a little by using a lighter headshell, but the EPA-100 headshell is very nice. I wouldn't really want to use a different one.
The ideal weight for a cartridge with this arm is around 6-6.5 grams. The ideal compliance is 12 x 10-6 cm/dyne at 100 Hz.
This weight and compliance happens to match almost every cartridge ever made by Technics (there are a few exceptions, but they are nearly all close to these figures). I love Technics cartridges, so it's not a big concern for me.
If the cartridge you want to use is similar in weight and compliance to a Technics cartridge, it's a great arm. If you want to use a really heavy, really light or super low or high compliance cartridge, I think there are better choices.
Also, the tracking force range is 0-3 grams. It may be possible to go above 3 grams with some cartridges, depending on their weight, but the scale on the counterweight will no longer read correctly.

The motor unit was really designed to use a 10" arm like the EPA-100, EPA-250, or EPA-500. You can use a shorter arm, but some 9" arms are difficult to mount in a way that looks good due to the size and shape of the rectangular motor base. This is especially true with the Technics plinths, like the SH-10B3. Those plinths won't allow 12" arms, at all. But, a custom plinth should make 12" arms no problem.

mudpy
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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by mudpy » 16 Jun 2019 14:39

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3748986924
This is the one im looking at although im a bit nervous for buying it without seeing it
Ive looked all over and the sp10 are hard to find

mudpy
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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by mudpy » 16 Jun 2019 14:40

Thanks again all for the advise

banerjba
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Re: Technics sp10 or clearaudio

Post by banerjba » 16 Jun 2019 15:10

Mudpy, I would not buy any used table over the internet that needs to be shipped. This one is in Russian so not sure if it will have voltage or frequency issues in Canada.

This one is gorgeous but that is over $4K Canadian. That will buy you a very nice table new.

Bay Bloor Radio in Toronto sells the new Technics 1200s from C$2500. These are the new ones with the better platter and arm. Clearaudio at the $4K prince point is incredible (heck even the $2K Concept is amazing for the money).

Go listen to the Rega Planar 3 with TTPSU. Well under $2K new. Amazing table (literally one of the most engaging on the market. It is set and forget.

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