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Dual 505-1: new stylus and belt?

Posted: 10 Jun 2019 09:18
by Pettsvaldo
Hi everyone

I've just put together my new system - my initial questions were dealt with at https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 5&t=112377 - now I've looking for some advice on the turntable so I thought it'd be more sensible to start a new thread over here.

So, the turntable is a Dual 505-1. It's currently got a Ortofon VMS5E MkII Cartridge. I was advised to switch this to a OM10 or OM20, particularly given the other elements of the setup (Rotel amp and Wharfedale speakers). Would everyone concur with that advice?

And regarding the belt, vintagevinyllover said I should look to replace it as a matter of course. First, I'm guessing I should assess the existing innards first? Secondly, does anyone have a supplier/manufacturer they'd recommend (or any knock-offs that I should avoid)?

Thanks in advance.

Kristian

Re: Dual 505-1: new stylus and belt?

Posted: 10 Jun 2019 12:54
by Beobloke
I bought a toothed pitch belt from Malvern Audio on eBay in the UK for a CS505-1 I was repairing for a friend, and they also included a turntable drive belt in the package.

I didn't actually need it as the belt on the deck was fine, but thought I might as well fit it - however it was much too tight.

Consequently, if you're buying from the above vender, be aware. In fairness to them, their service was excellent and the pitch belt did the job perfectly.

Re: Dual 505-1: new stylus and belt?

Posted: 10 Jun 2019 13:38
by Solist
For the belt I would recommend thakker

https://www.thakker.eu/en/belts/turntab ... lt/a-2673/

From what I have heard they are the best option for belts in Europe. On ebay, some people like to buy cheap belts in bulk and then sell them as turntable belts. Thakker is the safe option.

For the cartridge, I have no idea and I will let someone else chim in. The 505 has a low mass tonearm, so you need a high compliance cartridge. Another option, which I use is the Shure m75. It is a really nice cartridge. Put a thakker m75ed type II on it and you will be happy I think. Its not the most high fidelity cartridge, but man its fun listening to it.

Re: Dual 505-1: new stylus and belt?

Posted: 10 Jun 2019 18:22
by Pettsvaldo
Hi Solist

Thanks for that - I'd seen Thakker previously so good to know they're reputable.

"The 505 has a low mass tonearm, so you need a high compliance cartridge" - could you explain in a little more detail what this means?

Thanks.

Re: Dual 505-1: new stylus and belt?

Posted: 10 Jun 2019 19:15
by raphaelmabo
Pettsvaldo wrote:
10 Jun 2019 18:22
"The 505 has a low mass tonearm, so you need a high compliance cartridge" - could you explain in a little more detail what this means?
This means that you should get an Ortofon OM cartridge. :) Ortofon OM-serie has high compliance.
Cartridges has a cantilever and at the end of the cantilever sits the stylus. The cantilever moves with the groove. Now, the cantilever has a suspension, that allows the cantilever to move. Compliance is a number that tells about the suspension.
High number = high compliance = soft suspension.
Low number = low compliance = stiff suspension.

The effective mass of the tonearm is how much the tonearm weights, how heavy or light it is.
A light (low mass tonearm) works best with a cartridge that has a soft suspension (high compliance).
A heavy (high mass tonearm) works best with a cartridge that a stiff suspension (low compliance).
And then there's medium mass tonearms and medium compliance cartridges, they are the most common ones since they have the broadest compatibility.

Here's an explanation from Ortofon about this:
https://www.ortofon.com/support/support ... -frequency

Re: Dual 505-1: new stylus and belt?

Posted: 10 Jun 2019 19:23
by Pettsvaldo
This means that you should get an Ortofon OM cartridge. :)
Haha!

Thanks, Raphael. Now you've explained it, I feel a bit stupid having asked - all so simple!

So, is the Ortofon cartridge I already have not high enough compliance? ie, would I be able to get away with just changing the stylus?

EDIT: just looked on the Ortofon site and the compliance for the VMS 5E is 20 µm/mN whilst the OM10 is 25 and the OM20 is 30. So I'm guessing that's pretty clear. Is there a ratio between the mass / compliance that is the Golden Rule?

Re: Dual 505-1: new stylus and belt?

Posted: 10 Jun 2019 19:43
by Pettsvaldo
Beobloke wrote:
10 Jun 2019 12:54
I bought a toothed pitch belt from Malvern Audio on eBay in the UK for a CS505-1 I was repairing for a friend, and they also included a turntable drive belt in the package.

I didn't actually need it as the belt on the deck was fine, but thought I might as well fit it - however it was much too tight.

Consequently, if you're buying from the above vender, be aware. In fairness to them, their service was excellent and the pitch belt did the job perfectly.
Thanks Beobloke - duly noted.

Re: Dual 505-1: new stylus and belt?

Posted: 13 Jun 2019 04:15
by lini
Kristian: Do yourself a favour and stick with the VMS MkII body - 'cause in combination with the carier plate of the halfinch-mount adaptor kit an OM might become too tall for an optimal VTA/SRA. Shall mean, if the arm orientation with the VMS currently is pretty horizontal to all so slightly "tail up" (= ascending from the front end towards the pivot), that's pretty ideal - and in that case the orientation with an OM would be less optimal. Well, and the current SuperOM generation needles from the 20 up aren't as compliant as the initial OM generation needles anymore, anyway (now all 25 cu instead of 30 cu for the 20 and 35 cu for the 30 and 40).

Instead I'd simply suggest to upgrade your VMS5E MkII to a VMS20E MkII with a new, original needle D20E MkII. The D20EII only was discontinued by Ortofon a couple of years ago, so if you buy one from one of the usual, established vendors, you're highly likely to get still pretty recent exemplar - and that's also the version you'll need, 'cause iirc the VMS5E MkII body expects the X- respectively H-shaped coding plug, so that the old, initial D20EII with the sandglass-shaped coding plug wouldn't fit.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini