Ariston rd11s tonearm

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Wayneb007
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Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by Wayneb007 » 22 May 2019 12:36

I’ve recently bought an Ariston rd11s which came with an Alt-1 tonearm. Problem is the table sounds harsh and very bright. Could this be the tonearm or something else ? If so what tonearm would people recommend? I’ve tried different cartridges and all seem bright. Currently on a Goldring E3

Solist
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by Solist » 22 May 2019 14:13

Did you align the cartridge correctly?

If you have a high SRA value (cartridge tail up), you will get a bright sound.

Wayneb007
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by Wayneb007 » 22 May 2019 14:47

Yes it’s all aligned correctly I think.

DeepEnd
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by DeepEnd » 22 May 2019 18:55

On the assumption that it's an ADC ALT-1 arm then this is quite a light effective mass arm (only 7.0g according to the manual) and is the low cost version of the carbon fibre LMF-1 (only 5.5g effective mass!!).

These were designed when very high compliance cartridges were in vogue (typically 25 to 50 cu) and may not give its best with some of the the more medium compliance cartridges currently available. On the web page Goldring only state a static compliance (of 20) for the E3 so I would think the dynamic compliance is probably somewhere between 10 and 16 (the suggested tracking force seems to back that up to).

Given you already have the Goldring rather than buy another cartridge with a higher compliance (e.g. Ortofon Super OM or 2M (25/22cu) or Grado 20-25cu, ADC range etc. etc.) that may be a better match to the lightweight arm it might be worth trying with a little extra mass first.

If you have a digital stylus gauge weight then weigh a blob of blutac of say 3.5g and temporarily stick this on the headshell between the rectangular cartridge mounting section and the connection joint as this will bring the E3 closer to the max weight the arm can cope with and also increase the effective mass a bit by moving the counterweight further away from the pivot. Rebalance and reset the tracking force and see if the extra mass helps.

Again try lowering the arm pillar height 1 or 2 mm as this could also help tame the top end a bit.

Trouble is I am perhaps not the best person to ask as I find all the AT based units (and the Goldring is an OEM AT unit) a little shy on the bottom and a bit bright.

I don't know what other cartridges you have but take a look at the compliance specs as there may be a better match in your collection.

I probably have the perfect cartridge for it (A&R P78 with boron cantilever with a compliance of 30) but it has had a £300 retip with a Gyger 2 extended line contact that really needs a lighter arm than my Rega (11.5g) to really sing but it has a bottom end that AT units just cannot match.

Wayneb007
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by Wayneb007 » 22 May 2019 19:29

Thanks man I’m a complete novice at all this but have heard my arm isn’t the best

DeepEnd
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by DeepEnd » 22 May 2019 19:57

No problem, you have a very good deck and Cartridge to arm matching can be difficult as different manufacturers specify things in different ways so not exactly easy to check.

Rough guide if it sounds rather lightweight the cartridge probably needs more mass and if it sound “stodgy” it probably needs less mass but different cartridges also have slightly different characters too.

What other cartridges do you have to try?

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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by Bandit127 » 22 May 2019 20:16

Welcome to Vinylengine and congratulations on your new deck. It is a good one.

Apologies if I have misread your posts to mean that you are a novice - but it sounds like you could do with watching a few videos on setting up the tonearm and cartridge before you condemn the current arm. Without this knowledge you will not get the best out of a new arm, let alone your current one.

The concept isn't hard once you understand it but the practice is. It still takes me 3 goes at least to do an alignment, think I have it spot on, listen for a while and realise it isn't right, tweak it and go round again.

You have a great deck and the investment in your time to learn how to set it up will pay out in the long term. Give yourself 6 months, but you should aim to know what SRA (stylus rake angle) is and how the resonant frequency of the tonearm is influenced by the stiffness of the suspension in the cartridge by then. (And - as above - how that influences the frequency response or 'tonality' of the deck).

This is a great forum for support without judgement, don't hesitate to post up questions as they crop up. Even basic ones will get an answer without you being "flamed".

Wayneb007
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by Wayneb007 » 22 May 2019 20:19

Thanks guys

Bandit127
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by Bandit127 » 22 May 2019 20:25

No problem.

The owner's manual for your deck is here for future reference.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/ari ... -11s.shtml

Good luck with it.

Wayneb007
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by Wayneb007 » 22 May 2019 21:02

DeepEnd wrote:
22 May 2019 19:57
No problem, you have a very good deck and Cartridge to arm matching can be difficult as different manufacturers specify things in different ways so not exactly easy to check.

Rough guide if it sounds rather lightweight the cartridge probably needs more mass and if it sound “stodgy” it probably needs less mass but different cartridges also have slightly different characters too.

What other cartridges do you have to try?
I’ve tried a Rega Carbon and an Adc that came with it. Also a Shure and the Goldring which sounds the best. Although all are bright on vocals

Wayneb007
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by Wayneb007 » 22 May 2019 21:03

Bandit127 wrote:
22 May 2019 20:16
Welcome to Vinylengine and congratulations on your new deck. It is a good one.

Apologies if I have misread your posts to mean that you are a novice - but it sounds like you could do with watching a few videos on setting up the tonearm and cartridge before you condemn the current arm. Without this knowledge you will not get the best out of a new arm, let alone your current one.

The concept isn't hard once you understand it but the practice is. It still takes me 3 goes at least to do an alignment, think I have it spot on, listen for a while and realise it isn't right, tweak it and go round again.

You have a great deck and the investment in your time to learn how to set it up will pay out in the long term. Give yourself 6 months, but you should aim to know what SRA (stylus rake angle) is and how the resonant frequency of the tonearm is influenced by the stiffness of the suspension in the cartridge by then. (And - as above - how that influences the frequency response or 'tonality' of the deck).

This is a great forum for support without judgement, don't hesitate to post up questions as they crop up. Even basic ones will get an answer without you being "flamed".
you think the arm is worth sticking with for now then?

Wayneb007
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by Wayneb007 » 22 May 2019 21:10

Bandit127 wrote:
22 May 2019 20:25
No problem.

The owner's manual for your deck is here for future reference.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/ari ... -11s.shtml

Good luck with it.
Thank you

nat
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by nat » 23 May 2019 23:20

I think you should stick with the arm, simply because you are learning about arms and cartridges, and buying something else now would simply add an additional cost to the learning process.
I would try adding mass to the arm. This used to be easy since cartridges came with a variety of plates to allow for adjusting height, but also could be used to increase mass.
I'd also look at the manual to make sure that you have aligned it correctly.

Wayneb007
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by Wayneb007 » 24 May 2019 06:06

nat wrote:
23 May 2019 23:20
I think you should stick with the arm, simply because you are learning about arms and cartridges, and buying something else now would simply add an additional cost to the learning process.
I would try adding mass to the arm. This used to be easy since cartridges came with a variety of plates to allow for adjusting height, but also could be used to increase mass.
I'd also look at the manual to make sure that you have aligned it correctly.
Thanks

DeepEnd
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Re: Ariston rd11s tonearm

Post by DeepEnd » 24 May 2019 06:42

I wouldn’t have thought the ADC and Shure would have been particularly bright.

What is the rest of your system? (it may be a loading or mismatch issue not an arm issue).

If the blutac/weight experiments don’t have the required effect I may be able to loan you an A&R E77 (nude elliptical) to try as this ,apart from early Grado’s, has one on the smoothest midrange and trebles going and does seem to mind a higher capacitance input unlike some.

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