alignment protractor

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Da He Hua
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alignment protractor

Post by Da He Hua » 15 Mar 2019 14:30

I know this has been thoroughly debated, so I apologize in advance for reopening the topic. But what's the current thinking on choosing between
Baerwald (aka Lofgren A)
Lofgren (aka Lofgren B)
Steveson?

Under each I think there is also an option to choose among
DIN (assuming an inner groove radius of 57.5mm)
IEC (assuming an inner groove radius of 60.325mm)
Typical (assuming an inner groove radius of 63mm).

All my records are pre-1985 classical music LPs. The tonearm is Jelco 750, for which I believe the manufacturer recommends Steveson. Thank you very much.

Alec124c41
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Re: alignment protractor

Post by Alec124c41 » 15 Mar 2019 14:49

I am using Sumiko/Jelco MMT arms, and a Jelco SA-750E, with Baerwald on all of them.
You can try the different protocols, and see if you can hear any difference. If you can, use the one you like.
I have a couple of old records with an inner groove radius of ~53mm. For such as these, Stevenson might be preferable.

Cheers,
Alec

chiz
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Re: alignment protractor

Post by chiz » 15 Mar 2019 14:59

All alignment methods are a compromise.
My advice would be to experiment and see what works best for you.
Personally I like to optimise for the inner grooves so prefer Stevenson derived methods.
But on many of my records this will result in the inner null being in the run out area.
As your collection is of a specific type and era you might not have as much variance as I do of inner modulated radius.
This is a very useful tool for comparing different geometries:

https://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_ali ... or_pro.php
Last edited by chiz on 15 Mar 2019 15:06, edited 1 time in total.


Da He Hua
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Re: alignment protractor

Post by Da He Hua » 15 Mar 2019 15:58

Thank you very much. Sorry for the ignorance but is UNI-DIN referenced in some of these articles yet a fourth method in addition to Baerwald, Lofgren B, and Stevenson?

chiz
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Re: alignment protractor

Post by chiz » 15 Mar 2019 16:06

Da He Hua wrote:
15 Mar 2019 15:58
is UNI-DIN referenced in some of these articles yet a fourth method in addition to Baerwald, Lofgren B, and Stevenson?
Yes, a more recent one:

1938 - Löfgren
1941 - Baerwald (= Löfgren A)
1966 - Stevenson
2010 - UNI-DIN

chiz
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Re: alignment protractor

Post by chiz » 15 Mar 2019 16:11

A very detailed article on the subject here:

viewtopic.php?t=4854

hedgehog35
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Re: alignment protractor

Post by hedgehog35 » 16 Mar 2019 00:21

If you wish to try different alignments for your Jelco, I can heartily recommend the 'Accutrak' protractor which is made for your particular arm. Really easy to use and let's you try the three alignments you are interested in, plus the manufacture recommended alignment. Link is:
http://www.accutrak.us/index.html
They are expensive for what they are, but I have bought three for different arms and have always found them excellent.

smee4
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Re: alignment protractor

Post by smee4 » 16 Mar 2019 00:55

Da He Hua wrote:
15 Mar 2019 14:30
I know this has been thoroughly debated, so I apologize in advance for reopening the topic. But what's the current thinking on choosing between
Baerwald (aka Lofgren A)
Lofgren (aka Lofgren B)
Steveson?

Under each I think there is also an option to choose among
DIN (assuming an inner groove radius of 57.5mm)
IEC (assuming an inner groove radius of 60.325mm)
Typical (assuming an inner groove radius of 63mm).

All my records are pre-1985 classical music LPs. The tonearm is Jelco 750, for which I believe the manufacturer recommends Steveson. Thank you very much.
The philosophy behind choosing an alignment can be different for different people. Those wanting to just minimise distortion across an entire record would choose Baerwald perhaps. But I feel this can be the wrong decision for me, and like you, I listen to a lot of Classical music. Stevenson is better for records that have grooves cut near the label, especially when they contain heavy modulation, such as the final sections of many classical recordings.

UNI-DIN is somewhere between Baerwald and Stevenson in this regard, and has somewhat less error at about 75-80 mm (due to it's null points being closer together) - compromising a for a little more distortion at the beginning of a record (where it often matters least) and also a little more at the very end (but that totally depends on where the last grooves actually end). There is something to be said for this method I feel.

derspankster
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Re: alignment protractor

Post by derspankster » 16 Mar 2019 16:31

After using the Baerwald alignment for many years I decided to give Stevenson a try. After alignment, I played a Diana Krall recording that I knew had a lot of nasty sibilance in the vocals on inner grooves. Most of that sibilance is gone now. The inner portion of an LP is where most of tracking error occurs so it seems to make sense to align for that portion anyway.

I've been listening to a variety of music for several days now and I believe I like this alignment and am going go with it.

Da He Hua
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Re: alignment protractor

Post by Da He Hua » 16 Mar 2019 17:37

When you use Stevenson, do you use DIN or IEC for the inner groove radius?

derspankster
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Re: alignment protractor

Post by derspankster » 16 Mar 2019 17:44

I used the Stevenson protractor provided in the Tools section of this site https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-a ... tors.shtml

The null points are listed at 60.325 mm and 117.42 mm.

hedgehog35
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Re: alignment protractor

Post by hedgehog35 » 17 Mar 2019 18:58

As mentioned above, I have tried different alignments with modified Rega RB300 and SME M2 - 9 arms. It's strange, but I always come back to the alignment suggested by arm manufacturer, as it sounds best to me. Having said that, I think the Rega method is close to Stevenson. I now have Technics 1200GR and am using the Technics alignment which sounds good to me - not sure which method there's based on.

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