BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

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The_Chemist
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BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by The_Chemist » 17 Feb 2019 02:16

Last year I bought a new old stock BSR 610 turntable on Ebay. I figured I'd use it to stack 45s.

I went through it and removed all the congealed grease, then relubricated everything. It runs like a champ.

There is one problem though... It runs too fast. I remember when I was a teenager (many moons ago), my friend had a BSR. It was part of a Panasonic AM/FM cassette player, with floor-standing Thruster speakers. It had a magnetic cartridge, so it sounded pretty decent

I adjusted the pitch on hers by turning an adjustment screw underneath the platter that raised and lowered the idler wheel. Obviously it had a tapered motor pulley. I remember it was a very tedious process. I had to adjust the idler wheel height, replace the platter place my strobe disk on the platter, check and repeat as necessary until the strobe remained stationary. I also remember that I used the plug-in strobe light from my Technics SL-1100A turntable for the strobe light source. I plugged it into an extension cord. Oh what fond memories...

Anyway after that trip down memory lane, I am posting here because I have a question.

Is anyone here familiar with the BSR 610? I don't see any way to correct for the fast speed. Of course I'm farsighted now, so when I had the 610 apart, I really didn't notice if it had a tapered motor pulley or not. I didn't see an adjustment screw for idler wheel height either. When I was younger, I would have noticed that without even looking for it. I couldn't find a service manual either.

Is there a way to correct the speed on the 610?

My friend's BSR that I adjusted back in the 70's was not by any means a top of the line changer, but yet it had the ability to correct for pitch even though it was a cumbersome process. The 610 was the top of the line changer from BSR being sold right under the Elac clones (BSR 710 & 810) at th he same time.

Any Help would be welcome and appreciated. Thanks!

Spinner45
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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by Spinner45 » 17 Feb 2019 02:41

The BSR 610, along with all the lower tier idler models do not have a speed adjustment.
They are fixed-speed.

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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by The_Chemist » 17 Feb 2019 05:03

This thing probably runs 3 to 4 percent fast. Very noticable when playing music.

It really surprises me that the much cheaper model my friend had could be adjusted, although it wasn't easy!

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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by Spinner45 » 17 Feb 2019 07:04

The_Chemist wrote:
17 Feb 2019 05:03
This thing probably runs 3 to 4 percent fast. Very noticable when playing music.

It really surprises me that the much cheaper model my friend had could be adjusted, although it wasn't easy!
No, sorry, those cheap BSR's did not have any "adjustable speeds".
They never did, I don't know what you fiddled with, but they never did.
And I've worked on virtually every model they made over the decades.

That "adjustment screw" you played with on the idler assembly isn't a speed control.
It's made to center the idler on the appropriate "step" of the motor shaft.

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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by The_Chemist » 17 Feb 2019 18:46

Sorry to disagree with you, but the unit I adjusted did have an idler wheel height adjustment screw and a tapered motor pulley.

I used the strobe light from my Technics SL-1100A and a Radio Shack strobe disc to achieve perfect pitch.

I don't know what model number the BSR was, but it had a head shell with a single screw on the top that held a Pickering cartridge in place.

I remember spending a lot of time adjusting and replacing the platter until the strobe remained stationary.

My 610 doesn't have this setup. It has, as you stated, a screw that centers the idler wheel and no tapered motor pulley.

nat
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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by nat » 17 Feb 2019 22:19

The 710 and 810 are not ELAC clones. They have square section arm tubes, but that doesn't make them clones.
Not sure why this rumor annoys me so. But clearly it does.

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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by The_Chemist » 17 Feb 2019 22:49

nat wrote:
17 Feb 2019 22:19
The 710 and 810 are not ELAC clones. They have square section arm tubes, but that doesn't make them clones.
Not sure why this rumor annoys me so. But clearly it does.
I knew that would tic someone off when I called them clones.

Joel Thorner used to chastise me for that as well. Maybe I still call them clones because they use Elac spindles. Clearly underneath, they use an ingenious cam shaft instead of the gears Elac used. I remember their ad: It stated (and I'm paraphrasing) whether you choose the 710 or the 810, either way you'll get the shaft.

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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by The_Chemist » 17 Feb 2019 23:01

So, more in line with my original question...

The speed is fast on my 610. I bought it new old stock on Ebay. It sat for 40 to 50 years in a sealed box.

Does anyone think the fast speed happened due to age? Or, was it fast from the factory when it was new? Hopefully BSR would not put out a changer that far off.

I would think that, if anything, the 610 would go slow after aging. Magnets in the motor get weaker...

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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by Spinner45 » 17 Feb 2019 23:19

The_Chemist wrote:
17 Feb 2019 18:46
Sorry to disagree with you, but the unit I adjusted did have an idler wheel height adjustment screw and a tapered motor pulley.

I used the strobe light from my Technics SL-1100A and a Radio Shack strobe disc to achieve perfect pitch.

I don't know what model number the BSR was, but it had a head shell with a single screw on the top that held a Pickering cartridge in place.

I remember spending a lot of time adjusting and replacing the platter until the strobe remained stationary.

My 610 doesn't have this setup. It has, as you stated, a screw that centers the idler wheel and no tapered motor pulley.
I'd like to very much know exactly what budget BSR you are discussing that you insist has a tapered motor shaft, because I've never seen one in those types of models.
There's a pretty extensive model base right here in the Library section that you could go over and perhaps find the specific tier model in question.
And as I mentioned previously, I've serviced just about every BSR model from the mini-changers up to the TOTL 810 model.
Perhaps the "taper" you're talking about is the 4-stepped sections relating to the 4 speeds of those models.
If that's the case, those individual "steps" were not tapered, not in a budget model.
Unless, of course, someone decided to take a file to the shaft and modify it.

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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by ravelax » 17 Feb 2019 23:35

Try cleaning and lubricating the idler, motor and platter bearings. After 50 years in a box these are probably dry. I have a Dual 1225 idler that ran fast, I fiddled and fiddled with the speed adjustment and couldn't get it right. But cleaning and lubricating actually solved the issue! Might be worth a try for you too.

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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by The_Chemist » 18 Feb 2019 01:02

Spinner45 wrote:
17 Feb 2019 23:19
The_Chemist wrote:
17 Feb 2019 18:46
Sorry to disagree with you, but the unit I adjusted did have an idler wheel height adjustment screw and a tapered motor pulley.

I used the strobe light from my Technics SL-1100A and a Radio Shack strobe disc to achieve perfect pitch.

I don't know what model number the BSR was, but it had a head shell with a single screw on the top that held a Pickering cartridge in place.

I remember spending a lot of time adjusting and replacing the platter until the strobe remained stationary.

My 610 doesn't have this setup. It has, as you stated, a screw that centers the idler wheel and no tapered motor pulley.
I'd like to very much know exactly what budget BSR you are discussing that you insist has a tapered motor shaft, because I've never seen one in those types of models.
There's a pretty extensive model base right here in the Library section that you could go over and perhaps find the specific tier model in question.
And as I mentioned previously, I've serviced just about every BSR model from the mini-changers up to the TOTL 810 model.
Perhaps the "taper" you're talking about is the 4-stepped sections relating to the 4 speeds of those models.
If that's the case, those individual "steps" were not tapered, not in a budget model.
Unless, of course, someone decided to take a file to the shaft and modify it.
It was a BSR used by Panasonic in an AM/FM cassette unit.

That was back in the late 70s, so I really don't remember the model number or if it was a 3 speed or 4 speed.

The motor pulley was tapered, or should I say, each step of the motor pulley was tapered to allow for speed adjustment by adjusting the idler wheel up or down on that particular motor step to achieve perfect speed. I distinctly remember what a pain it was to adjust the idler wheel height up or down within the pulley step, replace the platter, check with strobe, rinse and repeat as necessary. Possibly Panasonic speced out the motor pulley.

I do remember the tone arm head had one single screw that held a Pickering cartridge in place. I got a new stylus for her turntable, so I remember the cartridge brand as well.

Enough said. I'm not going to belabor this anymore.... I came here for Help not a debate.

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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by The_Chemist » 18 Feb 2019 01:04

ravelax wrote:
17 Feb 2019 23:35
Try cleaning and lubricating the idler, motor and platter bearings. After 50 years in a box these are probably dry. I have a Dual 1225 idler that ran fast, I fiddled and fiddled with the speed adjustment and couldn't get it right. But cleaning and lubricating actually solved the issue! Might be worth a try for you too.
Thank you very much for your kind advice. I'll try that.

I just bought this thing to stack 45s. It'll probably run forever. Hopefully at the correct speed. :)

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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by Spinner45 » 18 Feb 2019 03:02

The_Chemist wrote:
18 Feb 2019 01:02
Spinner45 wrote:
17 Feb 2019 23:19
The_Chemist wrote:
17 Feb 2019 18:46
Sorry to disagree with you, but the unit I adjusted did have an idler wheel height adjustment screw and a tapered motor pulley.

I used the strobe light from my Technics SL-1100A and a Radio Shack strobe disc to achieve perfect pitch.

I don't know what model number the BSR was, but it had a head shell with a single screw on the top that held a Pickering cartridge in place.

I remember spending a lot of time adjusting and replacing the platter until the strobe remained stationary.

My 610 doesn't have this setup. It has, as you stated, a screw that centers the idler wheel and no tapered motor pulley.
I'd like to very much know exactly what budget BSR you are discussing that you insist has a tapered motor shaft, because I've never seen one in those types of models.
There's a pretty extensive model base right here in the Library section that you could go over and perhaps find the specific tier model in question.
And as I mentioned previously, I've serviced just about every BSR model from the mini-changers up to the TOTL 810 model.
Perhaps the "taper" you're talking about is the 4-stepped sections relating to the 4 speeds of those models.
If that's the case, those individual "steps" were not tapered, not in a budget model.
Unless, of course, someone decided to take a file to the shaft and modify it.
It was a BSR used by Panasonic in an AM/FM cassette unit.

That was back in the late 70s, so I really don't remember the model number or if it was a 3 speed or 4 speed.

The motor pulley was tapered, or should I say, each step of the motor pulley was tapered to allow for speed adjustment by adjusting the idler wheel up or down on that particular motor step to achieve perfect speed. I distinctly remember what a pain it was to adjust the idler wheel height up or down within the pulley step, replace the platter, check with strobe, rinse and repeat as necessary. Possibly Panasonic speced out the motor pulley.

I do remember the tone arm head had one single screw that held a Pickering cartridge in place. I got a new stylus for her turntable, so I remember the cartridge brand as well.

Enough said. I'm not going to belabor this anymore.... I came here for Help not a debate.
Very well, I'll just assume the lack of information is simple mistakes, as what happens a lot with "old memories".

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Re: BSR 610 Fine Speed Adjustment

Post by nat » 18 Feb 2019 22:53

Being curious, I looked at ELAC's products, and it occurred to me that one reason people call the BSR X10 series ELAC clones is that Elac had a 610 and an 810 (sorry, no 710). The mechanisms are, of course, completely different, but even cosmetically they are not like the BSRs - I was amused to see that they are among the less common ELACs that use cylindrical tonearm tubes and counterweights , not square section.

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