Vertical tracking force
-
- senior member
- Posts: 346
- Joined: 08 May 2017 18:49
- Location: Ljubljana
Vertical tracking force
I have recently started to experiment a bit with different tracking force values.
Mainly because Jico does not say exactly at what force to set their styluses (I presume they make them in a way to get close to the original specs).
While we often recommend to set the tracking force close to the maximum value specified from the manufacturer (if a range is specified), I started to notice the lower the tracking force, the more open and full the sound was.
It was like that instead of mumbling the cartridge actually started to speak in a more loud and clear way, for the lack of better words.
I want to hear other opinions about this, I think that the only problem with setting a low value is the risk of skipping, so some caution is necessary.
Mainly because Jico does not say exactly at what force to set their styluses (I presume they make them in a way to get close to the original specs).
While we often recommend to set the tracking force close to the maximum value specified from the manufacturer (if a range is specified), I started to notice the lower the tracking force, the more open and full the sound was.
It was like that instead of mumbling the cartridge actually started to speak in a more loud and clear way, for the lack of better words.
I want to hear other opinions about this, I think that the only problem with setting a low value is the risk of skipping, so some caution is necessary.
-
- long player
- Posts: 2738
- Joined: 01 Mar 2017 18:21
Re: Vertical tracking force
People will come up with all sorts of conclusions to various tracking forces.
However, the "difference" in sound resulting from going from heavy-to-lighter forces is simple.
Allow me to spell it out for you.....
The heavier the tracking force, the farther away from the coils of the cartridge will be the cantilever's magnet.
This naturally will "soften" the sound, as will the added suspension flexing.
With lighter forces, the magnet is closer to the coils, the elastic suspension is also inhibiting movements less, resulting in a "brighter" sound.
When a manufacturer recommends a certain stylus pressure, it's up to you to follow it, or not.
However, the "difference" in sound resulting from going from heavy-to-lighter forces is simple.
Allow me to spell it out for you.....
The heavier the tracking force, the farther away from the coils of the cartridge will be the cantilever's magnet.
This naturally will "soften" the sound, as will the added suspension flexing.
With lighter forces, the magnet is closer to the coils, the elastic suspension is also inhibiting movements less, resulting in a "brighter" sound.
When a manufacturer recommends a certain stylus pressure, it's up to you to follow it, or not.
-
- long player
- Posts: 2252
- Joined: 20 Sep 2015 04:14
- Location: Nashville, TN
Re: Vertical tracking force
I start in the middle of the suggested range, and the only change I might make is to increase if I'm having an issue with skipping or sibilance.
Related to skipping, there is a risk of the stylus not settling properly into the groove (even if it doesn't actually skip), so it may jump around and cause groove damage. This is especially true when dealing with a warp, as the stylus rides over a crest, potentially lifting from the groove, and then (sort of) crashing back down into the groove. It would better if the stylus never leaves the groove at all.
-
- senior member
- Posts: 760
- Joined: 23 Jun 2017 02:11
- Location: Liverpool,PA
Re: Vertical tracking force
I believe in setting to the lowest force that allows proper tracking of the loudest passages at the inner grooves. This will minimize stylus wear, while at the same time preserve groove life. Too light will result in mistracking which accelerates groove and stylus wear, and sounds bad, and may cause skipping. Too heavy may sound OK, but will increase both record and stylus wear.
-
- long player
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: 06 Feb 2007 23:58
- Location: Monroe NY USA
Re: Vertical tracking force
I agree with lenjack.
Regarding changes in sound quality I am skeptical about changes to sound quality with VTF changes. I believe it unlikely a manufacturer would send a product out into the world that changed its sound with changes in stylus pressure because that is not how a cartridge works, it responds to vibrations in the audio range and is insensitive to vertical displacement. Changes in sound quality with stylus pressure would apply to all magnetic carts from all brands, it would be widely acknowledged and be noted in the user instructions included with carts. None of these actually applies.
Regarding changes in sound quality I am skeptical about changes to sound quality with VTF changes. I believe it unlikely a manufacturer would send a product out into the world that changed its sound with changes in stylus pressure because that is not how a cartridge works, it responds to vibrations in the audio range and is insensitive to vertical displacement. Changes in sound quality with stylus pressure would apply to all magnetic carts from all brands, it would be widely acknowledged and be noted in the user instructions included with carts. None of these actually applies.
-
- senior member
- Posts: 760
- Joined: 23 Jun 2017 02:11
- Location: Liverpool,PA
Re: Vertical tracking force
:D Right on. Just enough force to successfully ride the groove wo rattling around.
-
- long player
- Posts: 2738
- Joined: 01 Mar 2017 18:21
Re: Vertical tracking force
And of course you have the right to be "skeptical".analogaudio wrote: ↑16 Jan 2019 01:09I agree with lenjack.
Regarding changes in sound quality I am skeptical about changes to sound quality with VTF changes. I believe it unlikely a manufacturer would send a product out into the world that changed its sound with changes in stylus pressure because that is not how a cartridge works, it responds to vibrations in the audio range and is insensitive to vertical displacement. Changes in sound quality with stylus pressure would apply to all magnetic carts from all brands, it would be widely acknowledged and be noted in the user instructions included with carts. None of these actually applies.
It's part of human nature.
-
- senior member
- Posts: 346
- Joined: 08 May 2017 18:49
- Location: Ljubljana
Re: Vertical tracking force
Should I add a tin hat to my profile picture? :)
I know how my first post sounded, thats why I decided to ask.
It could be I at first overshoot the vtf, then when I started lowering I moved into the sweet spot. As already mentioned I can only assume Jico vtf is similar to the original Shure.
Was thinking it could be the suspension just moving more "freely" compared to setting to the max vtf where its more pressed into the groove, no idea. The other being the coils in relation to the magnet, as already pointed out.
I know how my first post sounded, thats why I decided to ask.
It could be I at first overshoot the vtf, then when I started lowering I moved into the sweet spot. As already mentioned I can only assume Jico vtf is similar to the original Shure.
Was thinking it could be the suspension just moving more "freely" compared to setting to the max vtf where its more pressed into the groove, no idea. The other being the coils in relation to the magnet, as already pointed out.
-
- long player
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: 13 Mar 2008 20:44
- Location: Athens, TN
Re: Vertical tracking force
On Jico's Shure styli. They are specific to the same application as the Shure originals (not lowest common denominator heavy duty assumed), they work at the same tracking forces as the Shure originals.
-
- junior member
- Posts: 17
- Joined: 29 Apr 2017 02:30
Re: Vertical tracking force
This is something I'm struggling with right now. I got a new turntable with an ATP-2 cartridge, which has a recommended force of 3-5 grams. I'm going to get a lighter-tracking cartridge in about a month when I have the funds, but in the meantime I have it set at 3 and I'm worried to go higher. I know I should probably try 4, but is that too much? And a number of other forum users here and at other forums have recommended 2.5.
I'm not sure how what to do.
I'm not sure how what to do.
-
- senior member
- Posts: 760
- Joined: 23 Jun 2017 02:11
- Location: Liverpool,PA
Re: Vertical tracking force
Try it and listen for mistracking.
-
- long player
- Posts: 2738
- Joined: 01 Mar 2017 18:21
Re: Vertical tracking force
The often brought up and equally annoying mention of "heavy record-ruining tracking forces" seems to have made everyone who reads it that anything over 2 grams is disgustingly dangerous.BrianovichIV wrote: ↑16 Jan 2019 16:45This is something I'm struggling with right now. I got a new turntable with an ATP-2 cartridge, which has a recommended force of 3-5 grams. I'm going to get a lighter-tracking cartridge in about a month when I have the funds, but in the meantime I have it set at 3 and I'm worried to go higher. I know I should probably try 4, but is that too much? And a number of other forum users here and at other forums have recommended 2.5.
I'm not sure how what to do.
And that's just more audiophile propoganda of course.
Five grams is not going to ruin records.
Records played decades ago with that tracking force and heavier still play fine today.
Yes, somewhat lighter is an advantage, 2,3, grams is also fine.
But don't fuss over what others may insist, because it's just hyper talk.
-
- junior member
- Posts: 17
- Joined: 29 Apr 2017 02:30
Re: Vertical tracking force
That's reassuring. I think I will up the force to 4 to be right in the middle and give it a try.Spinner45 wrote: ↑16 Jan 2019 17:42The often brought up and equally annoying mention of "heavy record-ruining tracking forces" seems to have made everyone who reads it that anything over 2 grams is disgustingly dangerous.BrianovichIV wrote: ↑16 Jan 2019 16:45This is something I'm struggling with right now. I got a new turntable with an ATP-2 cartridge, which has a recommended force of 3-5 grams. I'm going to get a lighter-tracking cartridge in about a month when I have the funds, but in the meantime I have it set at 3 and I'm worried to go higher. I know I should probably try 4, but is that too much? And a number of other forum users here and at other forums have recommended 2.5.
I'm not sure how what to do.
And that's just more audiophile propoganda of course.
Five grams is not going to ruin records.
Records played decades ago with that tracking force and heavier still play fine today.
Yes, somewhat lighter is an advantage, 2,3, grams is also fine.
But don't fuss over what others may insist, because it's just hyper talk.
-
- senior member
- Posts: 760
- Joined: 23 Jun 2017 02:11
- Location: Liverpool,PA
Re: Vertical tracking force
Excessively high forces will slowly wear away treble information.
-
- junior member
- Posts: 17
- Joined: 29 Apr 2017 02:30
Re: Vertical tracking force
See, this is where I run into confusion. If Audio Technica, a respected maker of audio equipment, says to track the cartridge at 3-5 grams, is that really "excessively high?" That term makes me think of what a $60 Crosley suitcase turntable would do to the vinyl, not a $100+ cartridge. I have my doubts that they would recommend something that would damage your records. But at the same time, enough folks in the trenches say it's bad that it lends credence to the point they're trying to make.
Like I said before, I'm just trying to bridge that gap for a month or so until I get the cartridge I want (the LPGear Vessel), which tracks at 2 grams.