Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

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derspankster
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by derspankster » 16 Nov 2018 22:25

pivot wrote:
16 Nov 2018 21:39
derspankster wrote:
16 Nov 2018 15:44

............
Don't you think that someone with very little knowledge, but some willingness to learn, could do everything they need to do with help of folks on the forum here? ..............
Just to be clear. I am all for somebody who wants to get under the hood and tweak around. Those who wish to get better sound by investing some sweat equity should wade right in. If you look back in my posts I am sure one can see I have shared some "hands on tweaky info".

BUT......

I have been at this long enough, both in sales and as an amateur, to have seen many other folks who just want the thing to work and sound to come out. Sometimes you want to sling hot solder and sometimes you just want to listen to tunes.
When I was 10 years old I was convinced I could build a functioning rocket ship. Even made a lot of semi detailed drawings. But, that's as far as it ever got. Now, at a much more advanced age I have a much clearer idea of my capabilities.

It's important to know your limitations.

der

Issuesman666
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Issuesman666 » 17 Nov 2018 03:30

Not everyone wants to mess around with old electronics.

Some people just want to play records.

vinyl master
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by vinyl master » 17 Nov 2018 06:58

Nigel Gomez wrote:
17 Nov 2018 03:30
Not everyone wants to mess around with old electronics.

Some people just want to play records.
True, but even if I didn't mess around with them myself, I'd rather hire or pay someone to do it and do it right than buy any of these modern "turntables" pretending to be anything close to good hi-fi! A person can spend a lot of money on records nowadays and I still want to be able to play them in 20 years, and not find they've been ruined on piece of junk machine...

Yes, you can just play records, but don't expect much from many of these new turntables, unless you're willing to fork over a substantial amount of money...That's why it seems to me that vintage just makes the most sense...I'm not saying they CAN'T make a better "budget" turntable or that one isn't coming down the pike, but there is much work to do in order to get there!

Tinkaroo
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Tinkaroo » 17 Nov 2018 09:42

If someone wants to buy a good quality brand new turntable then they should be prepared to pay more than a few hundred bucks for it.

I bought a new semi auto turntable with adjustable pitch, anti-skate and interchangeable headshell for $280 in 1978. I consider it pretty basic but it was good quality and still works well today after 40 years.

If they want a good quality new turntable today then be prepared to pay more than that and adjust for inflation if you want something of quality that's going to last. I looked at a new one fairly recently and it lacked a pitch control and came with a cheap cartridge. Their R&D department wasn't really open to suggestions on how to improve their product. Many online reviews these days are bogus, but people fall for them as if they are written in stone.

Issuesman666
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Issuesman666 » 17 Nov 2018 13:37

I have both a new and a vintage turntable so I can see both sides of the equation.

I had to tinker a lot with my old Technics to keep it running.It was made in 1979.

Ghaasl
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Ghaasl » 17 Nov 2018 13:40

pivot wrote:
16 Nov 2018 21:39
derspankster wrote:
16 Nov 2018 15:44

............
Don't you think that someone with very little knowledge, but some willingness to learn, could do everything they need to do with help of folks on the forum here? ..............
Just to be clear. I am all for somebody who wants to get under the hood and tweak around. Those who wish to get better sound by investing some sweat equity should wade right in. If you look back in my posts I am sure one can see I have shared some "hands on tweaky info".

BUT......

I have been at this long enough, both in sales and as an amateur, to have seen many other folks who just want the thing to work and sound to come out. Sometimes you want to sling hot solder and sometimes you just want to listen to tunes.
Owning a previously enjoyed turntable of a certain age is like owning a classic car. You best learn how to service it or you’ll go broke paying someone else to do the work for you.

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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by hobie1dog » 17 Nov 2018 14:15

I'm 62 and I am fatigued with having old gear that fails. My advice is to buy a new direct drive model. No speed issues, future belt stretching to worry about, no capacitors that are at the end of their service life, motors that are at the end of their life, worn gears, dirty contacts, etc. It's like buying a 15-20 year old house where everything is at the end of its service life, HVAC unit, hot water heater, carpet, roof, appliances, countertops, plumbing fixtures, decks, landscaping, driveways, garage door openers, etc.

derspankster
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by derspankster » 17 Nov 2018 14:37

"I'm 62 and I am fatigued with having old gear that fails."

On the other end of the spectrum sit I, two months away from celebrating my 72nd birthday and still using a turntable I bought when I was 22 for 77 dollars.

der

pinenut
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by pinenut » 17 Nov 2018 17:22

Nothing wrong with buying - some - vintage turntables, as long as they were high quality in their day and can still easily be brought up to spec. For example, I just bought another vintage Empire 208/298. This is my third Empire (and I’m keeping ‘em all for kids and grandkids), and my second 208 table. These things were so well designed and built, they can last a lifetime - even if they weren’t well taken care of years ago. They sounded very good in standard form, and can be improved (modified) to keep up with many current audiophile tables - for much lower cost. Thing is, you have to like the look of a vintage turntable. Here’s a pic of the one I just bought in “before” condition. It’s really in better shape than it appears. Spindle is barely worn, Pabst motor runs dead quiet. It’ll look and sound super when it’s cleaned up and ready to use. This is an early (1960/‘61) example and a steal for the price paid.
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Spinner45
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Spinner45 » 17 Nov 2018 20:42

hobie1dog wrote:
17 Nov 2018 14:15
I'm 62 and I am fatigued with having old gear that fails. My advice is to buy a new direct drive model. No speed issues, future belt stretching to worry about, no capacitors that are at the end of their service life, motors that are at the end of their life, worn gears, dirty contacts, etc. It's like buying a 15-20 year old house where everything is at the end of its service life, HVAC unit, hot water heater, carpet, roof, appliances, countertops, plumbing fixtures, decks, landscaping, driveways, garage door openers, etc.
That's quite true, and understandable if you're not into doing maintenance on things.

My 78 year old brick home, with its 1971 Kitchenaid dishwasher, 1985 GE refridge, 1984 Maytag washer/dryer, and 1963 RCA Victor console stereo are all doing great in 2018.
With very little if any maintenance over the years.

Gelid
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Gelid » 17 Nov 2018 21:18

Lots of people who are wanting to buy their first or their re-introduction turntable have this same question. I also did, 4 or 5 years ago.

The single most important issue with buying a used turntable:
There are very, very, very few places that will, or even know how to fix them.

Most of the regulars here have no problem picking up a deal from Craigslist or an auction site, estate sale, etc... and getting it up and running. Therefore, they are quick to scoff at a brand-new turntable. Yes, the used one from the 1970's or 1980's is probably the better build quality for the money... if you can renew it.

Most vintage turntables have issues that need to be resolved, but who do you take your newly aquired Dual or Technics TT to? I didn't know 4-5 years ago when I bought my first vintage deck, and today I still don't know. The place that fixes my vintage stereo receivers wouldn't touch my Dual CS621 when I thought the tonearm needed to be re-wired. I basically said "Whatever it needs, do it." and they wouldn't touch it.

That is why people want to buy brand new.

Knowing there are a lot of models to steer clear of, they come here to get recommendations on what to get.

vinyl master
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by vinyl master » 18 Nov 2018 06:11

Gelid wrote:
17 Nov 2018 21:18

Most vintage turntables have issues that need to be resolved, but who do you take your newly aquired Dual or Technics TT to? I didn't know 4-5 years ago when I bought my first vintage deck, and today I still don't know. The place that fixes my vintage stereo receivers wouldn't touch my Dual CS621 when I thought the tonearm needed to be re-wired. I basically said "Whatever it needs, do it." and they wouldn't touch it.
Where exactly are you at in Western New York, Gelid? Have you heard of this place in Binghamton?

https://www.everythingradio.com/service ... le-repair/

If you're closer to Buffalo, I saw this little blurb...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buffalo/commen ... e_repairs/

And yet, another one outside of Syracuse...

https://www.hionfi.com/

Just curious, but have you been to any of those places? :-k

vinyl master
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by vinyl master » 18 Nov 2018 06:21

hobie1dog wrote:
17 Nov 2018 14:15
I'm 62 and I am fatigued with having old gear that fails. My advice is to buy a new direct drive model. No speed issues, future belt stretching to worry about, no capacitors that are at the end of their service life, motors that are at the end of their life, worn gears, dirty contacts, etc. It's like buying a 15-20 year old house where everything is at the end of its service life, HVAC unit, hot water heater, carpet, roof, appliances, countertops, plumbing fixtures, decks, landscaping, driveways, garage door openers, etc.
You worry about a 15-20 year old house, but what about those 100 year old classics? SOMEONE has to live in them! By the way, I have a GE refrigerator from the 1940's and a Montgomery Ward freezer from the 70's in the basement that still run like the day they were made...They keep the cold things cold, which is good enough for me! I'm not willing to fix something that ain't broken, either...Maybe one day, but not today...I also have a good friend who refurbished this old Westinghouse fridge from the 50's...

34128

AND this bad boy, too...

34186

...just in case I need any repairs down the line... :wink:

I met him at a local antique market here, so sometimes, those places (flea markets, antique shops, etc.) are good places to get leads on these things! :D

Oh, and by the way, he's an expert at fixing up old radios and TV sets, too! :wink:

Issuesman666
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Issuesman666 » 18 Nov 2018 07:07

vinyl master wrote:
18 Nov 2018 06:21
hobie1dog wrote:
17 Nov 2018 14:15
I'm 62 and I am fatigued with having old gear that fails. My advice is to buy a new direct drive model. No speed issues, future belt stretching to worry about, no capacitors that are at the end of their service life, motors that are at the end of their life, worn gears, dirty contacts, etc. It's like buying a 15-20 year old house where everything is at the end of its service life, HVAC unit, hot water heater, carpet, roof, appliances, countertops, plumbing fixtures, decks, landscaping, driveways, garage door openers, etc.
You worry about a 15-20 year old house, but what about those 100 year old classics? SOMEONE has to live in them! By the way, I have a GE refrigerator from the 1940's and a Montgomery Ward freezer from the 70's in the basement that still run like the day they were made...They keep the cold things cold, which is good enough for me! I'm not willing to fix something that ain't broken, either...Maybe one day, but not today...I also have a good friend who refurbished this old Westinghouse fridge from the 50's...

34128

AND this bad boy, too...

34186

...just in case I need any repairs down the line... :wink:

I met him at a local antique market here, so sometimes, those places (flea markets, antique shops, etc.) are good places to get leads on these things! :D

Oh, and by the way, he's an expert at fixing up old radios and TV sets, too! :wink:
Your electricity bill is probably high.

Gelid
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Re: Used Vintage vs Used Entry-level Audiophile

Post by Gelid » 18 Nov 2018 07:17

vinyl master wrote:
18 Nov 2018 06:11

If you're closer to Buffalo, I saw this little blurb...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buffalo/commen ... e_repairs/

Just curious, but have you been to any of those places? :-k
Yeah, I'm in the sprawling suburbs of Buffalo. The Speaker Shop is mentioned alot in that little blurb... that is where I take all my stuff. That's also the place that wouldn't take the Dual 621. Not to knock them for it... I'm glad they admitted to not wanting to do it.

The Speaker Shop is actually a holdover from the halcyon days of home audio gear. (pretty sure that's where my Pioneer SX-850 came from in 1976... dad would've shopped there). Been around a loooong time, and still deal in high-end gear as well as stuff for me. They sub out vintage repairs. Whoever they send it to does very good work. I think I know where it goes, but I'm not certain.

I didn't even know they were still around when I was getting back into the hobby... thought they had closed long ago.

...which is my point: If it weren't for a casual "oh, by the way" comment, I still wouldn't know.