Miida M6000P - looking for advice/info

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priba
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Miida M6000P - looking for advice/info

Post by priba » 18 Sep 2018 11:15

Hi there vynil lovers!!
First let me introduce my self since I'm new here and this is my firs post.
Name is Marko, live in Zagreb (Croatia) and I like things from 70's.
My TT is from that era, my project car too and my life project as well (read wife) :mrgreen:

Now let's get to the point.
Bought Miida M6000P TT some time ago and it I choose it because it's vintage model and has a nice setup. It wasn't cheap (€200+) but it is in verry good shape, has new audio cable, weight, new cartridge (AT91)...
I could just buy some new TT for that money or a bit more but it would be new. I could go for some old TT that woould ask for more care and money.
So I got this vintage one ready to play.
OK, I got a "blessing" from my good friend (and ex boss) who is an analogue freak. Maybe he is here on forum too??

some specs/pics of the TT

Miida M6000P made by Marubeni (Japan)
Direct drive
Semi auto
Speed 33,3 & 45, quartz locked (with strobe)
No pitch controll
Platter 310mm / 12.2 inch die-cast aluminum(?) 1.42kg / 3.13lbs (w/a rubber mate)
S-shape tonearm with 1/2" removable headshell, counter weight and anti-skate
Pivot to spindle 200mm
AT91 cartridge
Original headshell
No pre-amp
Weight 8kg / 17.6lbs
Dimensions H/W/D 440/142/380mm / 17.3/5.6/15 inch
MY 197* ??
Weight stabiliser brass 420g / 0.93lbs
...that's what I know about it.

42463

42464

42465

42466

42467

my questions ... #-o

Does anybody here has any concrete info/documentation for this TT?
I found so many info on Miida being a brand name but their products were made by Danon, Benitone, CEC etc. I didn't find anything like this TT from other manufacturers. Closest find was CEC DD-8200 here on forum.
Of course, Marubeni and Benitone are elusive for any info.

How to set up my tonearm and cartrige properly?
I did set VTF to 2.00g, that's no-brainer.
I did set anti-skate to 2.2 (found on many places it should be OK to set it to same or bit more value of VTF), this works fine for me.
I did cartridge alignemt and that's OK too for me.
What bothers me is tonearm alignment.
Since this TT was not set up correctly in the first place I went all the way to check it. Now, using Tonearm Ailgnment Calculator provided here, and measured "pivot-to-spindle" I got values I can hardly reach. Depending on the calculation method they are from 216-218.5mm. Right now I have it on 213/214mm and have just 3mm left in my headshell left. It works/sound realy good now and I would like to check with you guys how to do it right. I couldn't find proper technical info on the tonearm so I'm stuck here.

What cartrige to buy?
I'm thinking about AT95 or OM10.
AT100E was an option but it's discontinued.
I would realy like an eliptical stylus and don't want to spend more than €100 or so for now. Ortofon OM is upgradable, and that's what makes me lean towards it. Later I could go for 20 or 30 stylus.
My records collection is almost completely old/used in various condition so buying more expensive cartridge would be waste of money, right?

Thanks for reading this article :D
and thanks for any info, in advance.

nat
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Re: Miida M6000P - looking for advice/info

Post by nat » 19 Sep 2018 00:28

Miida was a wholesaler or distributor of photographic, audio, and probably other stuff - shampoo, industrial equipment, who knows?. They didn't make stuff, as you are aware, but they did have a name and reputation to protect, so most of their products I've come across have been quite good. If your table looks like a CEC, it probably is made by them.
Your concern about alignment may be caused by using a different alignment than the table was meant for. Many Japanese tables are intended to be used with the Stevenson alignment, and sound fine that way. They can also sound fine with either the Baerwald or Lofgrin alignments, but the cartridge will be at the very limit (or beyond) of the adjustment range of the slots in the headshell, and the cartridge will need to be twisted, which looks peculiar.
If you like the way it sounds, why not just enjoy it? All too soon, you'll start to wonder if spending lots of cash might make you enjoy it more, but wait until it actually does. You can spend a lot of money finding out what you want.
I play old records all the time. Most sound just fine. Better cartridges sound better on them than do worse cartridges, and sometimes, not always, new records sound better than used records. Changes in the turntable, electronics, speakers, and speaker placement are all audible with most cartridges, even cheap ones. So it's not like there is some mystical level of perfection you are missing out on - you can change how your system sounds in an infinite number of ways, some of which will actually be better, but the more experience you have, the more likely you are to identify the better ways. So listen critically, and enjoy what you have until you absolutely must have something else. By then you may know what you actually want.

priba
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Re: Miida M6000P - looking for advice/info

Post by priba » 19 Sep 2018 07:22

Nat, thanx for your reply.
Info on Stevenson setup is greately appreciated. I suspected that's the way to go but was not sure.
Yes, I'm aware of all the things going into audio reproduction and how sound can be warped. I'm trying to get the best out of what I have, don't have plans for high end stuff I wouldn't benefit from.
It's more that technitian in me forcing me to have those things correctlly set up to get the most out of it. Then we can talk about upgrades.

That reminded me of my car ... standard A6 with 2.5 liter diesel engine, tweaking and upgrading ended up as full spec S6 with V8 4.2 and some custom things :lol:

cheers

priba
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Re: Miida M6000P - looking for advice/info

Post by priba » 15 Oct 2018 13:40

More than one month into search and still nothing abot this TT. Nowhere on the internet.
I even found guy selling records has one in the shop to play records. :P
Had it opened and lubed, properly cleaned etc.

First I sourced used SME headshel with Shure Premier cartridge w/a stylus both in great condition.
Ordered Jico N75EDII stylus and bang ... sound was way better (more rich).
Then I had to solve the cable. At first it was some dual coax hard wired to TT (cca.1,5m) with cheap RCAs and separate GND wire + very nice Oehlbach Silver phono interconnect (1m), connected with basic 2x female RCA adapter. It worked fine but it bothered me.
I was looking for a long term solution, preferably as one cable but couldn't find any phono interconnect long enough (2,5m). Last week I found a good quality cable sold on reels. Supra Dual.
So I made my own phono interconnect and hard wired it to TT tonearm wires, terminated it with Supra PPX gold plated RCAs and hooked it directly to the AVR. Now it sounds great, I have to turn up the volume all the way to +5dB on the AVR to hear some very low humm with TT on and not playing. At 0dB and lower nothing.
Shure_Premier.jpg
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SME.jpg
(156.93 KiB) Downloaded 62 times
Supra_Dual.jpg
(273.71 KiB) Downloaded 62 times
This cable has great specs and low capacitance, which I was after.
Number of leads, totally (specified) 6 (+, - and drain x 2 channels)
Lead area 0.24 mm2
Number of strands per lead 19
Strand dimension Ø 0.127mm
Lead material Tin plated, oxygen-free, 5N copper
Di-electric (insulation) PE
Shield 2 (Individual aluminized PET foil per each channel)
Jacket Age and heat resistant PVC
Outer dimension 2 x Ø 5.5mm
Weight 70 g/m
Resistance 72 Ω / km
Capacitance 52 pF / m
Supra_PPX_RCA.jpg
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I used shields as GND and it ended perfect for my application.
Capacitance range for M75 is 400-500pF .... I have calculated somewhere arround 400pF in my setup.
Tonearm 25pF + cable 130pF + phono preamp 250pF (tonearm and preamp values taken from some treads here on forum). I'm still looking to borrow a meter that has capacitance measurement to check this values.
Now I understand why my AT91 souded odd with capacitance load range 100-200pF and initial setup witch was certainly much higher.

nat
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Re: Miida M6000P - looking for advice/info

Post by nat » 17 Oct 2018 01:50

Unless the Shure happens to align exactly correctly with the SME headshell, the headshell is actually a bad thing. Though it looks very cool, and in the right arm, sounds good, it doesn't allow you to to adjust the cartridge's overhang. SME arms (which that headshell is meant for) adjust overhang by moving the arm. Most arms, and more pertinently, your arm, adjust overhang by moving the cartridge in the headshell.
The rich sound may be the lack of high frequencies because of misalignment. Maybe you like it that way, in which case, great. But you aren't hearing what was meant to be heard, and the misalignment might possibly damage records (I doubt it, but misalignment can't be good for a record).

priba
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Joined: 14 Sep 2018 19:12
Location: Zagreb

Re: Miida M6000P - looking for advice/info

Post by priba » 17 Oct 2018 07:53

hi nat, thanx for reply

I've checked the alignment and it's spot on.
yes, the overhang is not so good. it's hard to measure it properly with a ruller but it looks like I'm short by 2mm.
still I don't have proper data for the arm and I'm looking for 215mm efective lenght. if I compare it to japanese 49mm lenght stylus tip to headshell washer then it's spot on.
and there are two screws in the arm bracket assy that might be for adjusting angle and lenght but I didn't want to touch that. any thoughts on that?
I'll check that on Friday once I get back home.

ah yes, this setup souds lovely and measuring frequency range during playback shows very low dB over 11kH but that's inline with my resonance calculation. anyway, I'm planing to get at95 as a second cartridge and I'll be able to compare.

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